[QUOTE=Jackbox;1944245]I think you are giving the dog far more ability to work out why he is re homed that he is capable of.

I don't think anyone has said that any dog knows the reason it lives in one place with a certain set of humans, then all of a sudden, it moves to a different place & lives with another set of humans. I think a dog may get upset & possibly traumatised by losing all that is familiar to it. Some dogs cope with this better than others, & in some cases dogs can go from homes/kennels etc where they were very unhappy or depressed & find that the new home suits them much better. How much a dog understands about all this is anyone's guess!

So you are saying that a guide dog is more understanding to why he has been taken from a home he has spent yrs in, with an owner who relies on him 24/7..

The guide dog will have had what 2/3 homes, the puppy walker the training centre and then the home he is placed in, where he will spend the majority of his lifetime....yrs in fact, are you seriously telling me the dog will remember all the previous homes in his puppy hood and conditioned himself to being moved on in th efuture

I agree & I also have reservations about the way humans use dogs for their own purposes, often without a lot of thought for the dog itself. But there are occasions when a person's life can be incredibly enhanced by having a guide dog or hearing dog or assistant dog. And if, on these occasions, the dog itself is still leading a happy life, & all it basic needs are met, & no-one is being cruel to it, then maybe this can justify moving a dog from home to home? It may not always be in the best interests of the dog's emotional health & well-being but the benefits that the dog can bring to a person's life could be the price the dog has to pay.

Yes he many go to kennels (of foster homes) for holidays, but so do thousands of other dog, and they dont sit and add up all the homes they have had... they live in the moment, not the past !!

Nope I think you and others are missing my point, or ignoring it ... my point is not about the people, but the dog... regardless of why he is re homed... the dogs welbeing is what counts and a new home is a new home, regardless of why he was re homed to it.

I don't think I've missed your point at all! Yes dogs are sometimes rehomed for a variety of reasons as has already been discussed ~ sometimes these reasons can be justified as being for the ultimate welfare of the dog, sometimes for the ultimate well-being of the owners (as in the case of guide dogs/working dogs). All I have said is that people that show their dogs then rehome them when they're no longer capable of winning prizes or producing top quality "stock" are not thinking about the dog's welfare, but rather putting their own "hobby needs" above the dog's welfare. And putting the requirements of a hobby above the welfare of the dog is, IMO, a rather feeble excuse for causing a dog such trauma. This is why I struggle with the concept of rehoming show dogs for no other reason than they are no longer winners.

I don't have the same view of people that have to rehome their dog for other, much more important, reasons, such as their guide dog is too old to do it's job anymore & the blind person requires another dog but is not in a position to keep the retired dog. I don't have any issues with people that find that they can no longer care for their dog because of ill-health or other serious reasons. I don't have issues with people that have to rehome their dog, sometimes even for financial reasons such as they are being evicted from their home. These are serious unforeseen problems that can't be helped & no doubt if these sort of owners knew what the future held, they may not have got the dog in the first place.

But this is a world away from people that show & breed dogs & who know in advance that dogs that don't make the grade will not be kept. Yes I'm sure most responsible show people & breeders will do their utmost to make sure their "spare" dogs go to good homes & that the dogs often go on to lead happy lives. But this doesn't detract from the fact that these dogs are rehomed in the interests of furthering someone's hobby!!!! And that is the point I was trying to make. It's a hobby, nothing more, nothing less, & I fail to see the need to mess some poor animals about for the rather trivial purpose of a hobby.

Although I am not one of the Show people you are portraying I do tend to agree with you as it does happen and mostly by Big Show Kennels BUT most of these Show Kennels it is not actually a Hobby but there Business as most have Boarding, Grooming Business's attached to their kennels.
IMO Working Dogs are worse off when rehomed when not needed anymore or they do not make the grade. IMO These types are harder to rehome/ settle. Same as Working litters and the excess pups that do not go to working homes but pet homes they can be quite a handful especially to 1st time owners.

You took the words right out of my mouth

What she said..
Not all show people rehome, if that is your only gripe against showing, its a poor gripe.

I can completely understand your views & in the case of working dogs that don't make the grade, it can be very difficult to find homes where these dogs will settle & be content to be pets, especially the herding/guarding breeds. Perhaps less so with assistant-type dogs as I suspect owners would be happy to continue with that type of training & use the dog's abilities in some way.

With the show kennels, I appreciate that breeding & showing may only be a part of the business & that boarding kennels, grooming etc are attached to the business. However I can't recall the number of times I've been told by breeders that they don't make any money out of breeding!! And that showing their dogs is only a means of advertising their breeding business. If there is no profit element in breeding & showing, then why do it as part of a the business? It makes no financial sense at all ~ in fact it is positively stupid to continue showing & breeding as part of a business if there's no profit in it. These people are either showing & breeding to make money, or they're showing & breeding as a hobby that they enjoy.

I almost have more understanding of the showing & breeding for money ~ at least these people don't pretend that they're in it for anything other than money & probably only pay lip-service to the dogs' welfare & the onward sale of their "stock" so that potential customers don't think they're horrible to their dogs. But breeding & showing for a hobby, then discarding the dogs that don't make the grade, seems like a very poor way to demonstrate anyone's love for their dogs or dogs as a whole.

Wow what a sweeping statement. Only one person I know that shows also had a boarding kennels but on a small scale, to say "most" is completely untrue, but if they have, so what?

IMO Its not a sweeping statement in my view as I know quite a few just in my breed alone. I have nothing against these type of Show people whatsoever so your "so what comment" I do agree with lol. I was only trying to put my opinion across regarding a Hobby Show Person and a more sort of Business Show Person as imo a Hobby Show Person will tend to keep the ones that do not make the grade/ retired ones more so than a Bigger Business type Show Person.
I class myself as a Hobby Show Person as I only attend so many shows a year. I class the ones I mention as more Business types as they go to all Shows be it UK or abroad.

IMO The Breeders that have told you they do not make money out of Show/ Breeding are the small scale Show People like myself I believe that most Large Show Kennels do indeed make a good profit from their breeding as their dogs are most likely the ones to be in demand (so to speak) Importing and Exporting is a big thing with Big Breeders.
Think about the amount of dogs/ Bitches larger Show Kennel Breeders have so obviously profits are larger imo. I only breed to keep and cannot/ would not breed every year as I have not got the room or facilities but Large Show Kennels have.

I agree with this to a degree. I showed my dogs all over the country but nowhere near as much as the top kennels did. I bred three litters after being in the breed for 20 odd years and having shown for 15 years and I made a profit on my first litter but not on the others as c-sections were involved etc., but I was breeding to keep.

The last litter I was not involved with, my girl that I owned in partnership with her breeder, who was a commercial breeder, wanted a litter out of her before she was rehomed due to my illness. The litter was registered in my name as I was the registered keeper of the bitch, only two pups survived the c-section and she kept the girl and sold the boy.

Some of the show people are commercial breeders, it is their business, they are top winners in the show circuit and, as such, their dogs tend to be the ones that a lot of people will use at stud, assuming that any offspring will follow suit. We all know thats not necessarily the case but that seems to be the trend.

Unless you own a stud dog that everyone is using, or have several litters a year, it is highly unlikely that you will make any money and showing constantly is such an expensive hobby. I do know of a couple of breeders, not in my breed, that breed ocassional litters to pay for their show entries.

CAn you give me an example of who you would see as a "large show kennel"