If you're working your dog to satisfy it's built in instincts then that's fine (eg what it was bred to do), but for me it still wouldn't be quite good enough (I don't think, still not sure!).

Also just my opinion.

Of the people who feel that the dogs need to have the off lead.....how many have tried structured training and stimulating on lead stuff for any length of time? Just out of curiosity?
(personally I never have - I have helped people who have had to, but it has always been a spur of the moment thing due to injurys....not well thought out and rushed into)

You see when Tango is onlead I let her sniff wherever, we vary routes all the time (I sometimes double back on myself several times on a walk), we have training sessions built in, TTouch, searchinh for food in the grass games, retrieve games, the list is endless Hali. She doesn't have the chance to miss the lead not being clipped off.

this is a good point, its not a situation I have found myself in with my own dogs, but I do know of dogs that need to be on lead, some of there owners do more than others to keep there dogs happy and healthy some dont.

many toy breed owners dont let there dogs off lead for a lot of diff reasons, I truely feel they dont feel the same pressure of having to free run there dogs.

If you had to keep her on a lead though...if a law came in and you had to...you would and she would be satisfied

this 'good run', it is referring to offlead runs only?

i only ask because kira very rarely gets offlead runs, i.e freerunning. Simply because there are very few safe places for me to let her off, to let her off i need somewhere fully fenced, with either no gaps or very small ones under the fences because she'll slip under them and fgood size fences or she'll jump them... you see my problem lol.

however, she does get a very good run in harness, which personally i think is more benefical to her than her running around willy nilly lol, she has to work her mind as well as her body, by listening to commands. it is also more physically draining having to pull me around on a scooter lol.

i also think its more benefical having lead walks through streets, where she has to pay attention, i take her to a lot of new places as she goes most places with me, like town, where ther is always new smells and shes constantly meeting new people, interacting with children etc.

i dont think dogs need a good offlead run, they may enjoy it but they dont need it. what they need is exercise which is stimulating for mind and body, interacting with people, new situations etc.

I also think that a lot of owners (no offence to anyone on here, just from experience of where i used to live) use offlead running as an excuse, they an drive to a field, let their dog off to do what they want, little to no recall, while they stand there and have a fag/chat/text or whatever, then put the dog back in the car and go home. very little work needed on their part.

I dont think kiras missing out on anything.

just my opinion

why is that? if she is worn out at the end of the day, content and happy to just fall asleep on the bed when i shut the light out, does that not show that she has been sufficiently exercised?

or is it about more than just exercise? is it that stupid tounge out the side of the mouth grin they have when they run about? lmao (i love that grin)

If its about the happiness side of things... you've clearly never seen a sled dog working lol

I'm sure they are. But to say that they have triple the amount of energy of my breed, one that you have probably never met given that they are uncommon, is seriously unlikely. You wouldn't be able to live with such a dog.

Its amazing how many people have that problem

Yes they do Ailsa, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Human beings selectively bred these gundogs to live and breath hunting and quartering, to prevent them from doing this would most definitely be cruel! As my gundog trainer has said, you don't train HPR's to hunt/quarter. What you must do is leave them well alone, the instinct is so heavily bred in that it's there automatically, no training required. It's all the dog thinks about, quite literally!

I'd be horrified to think a working bred HPR was confined to a piece of rope all it's life!

Blimey you go to snuggle with the pooches and watch Holby City and look what happens,,,pages and pages! Here goes...

Exactly.
We don't live in an ideal world though huh?

No, true, we have to make the best of what we have got.

You have no idea of the dogs I have had do you?
Not having any experience of one side of the argument doesn't help much either.You have NO idea if your dog would suffer because you have never tried.

That's surely a pointless experiment though? If the dogs are happy offlead why change them to on lead walks?
And no...I have no idea what she means by her dog breathing offlead...but not on. Tango breathes very well onlead thankfully.




Yep



YES

Haven't we all Pidgey xxx Cosmo was a bit of a nightmare onlead for a bit because of that.

How do you know if you haven't even tried????

Yep.


Yep.



Let's hope you never have the need to keep your dogs onlead huh? Perish the thought.

I pulled the training one out of the equation.
They do need food, water, shelter and companionship in order to have the basic necessities...as well as exercise in some form.The title of the thread is not 'what does a dog need to be happy?' The title is 'does a dog need a good run?' and my answer is no it doesn't NEED it...it likes it but it doesn't need it.

How patronising of you as well to suggest that people who have to keep their dogs onlead must go and find somewhere to let their dogs run. Tango is perfectly happy onlead...please feel free to come and see, the only time she is unhappy is when she sees a moving dog. She gets playtime in the garden but she would actually choose a clicker training session over running round there, I know that as she has shown me in the past, by abandoning a game after 30 seconds and sitting by the clicker. We disagree on many things about working dogs Kirsty but I never tell you what you 'should' do. Please don't tell me what I 'should' do. The fact is I do have an enclosed space I can use for her besides the garden....but without it she is happy and fulfilled.

Ramble, here you go getting offended by other people's views. So Tango does well on lead, that's fine, and you are doing what any responsible dog owner would do if they had a dog with some issues. You make her life fullfilled with the extra bits you put into it, clicker training etc. but if you had had her from a pup and she had no issues with other dogs would you still feel as passionate about lead walking?
Sigh.

How do you know? HOw can you assess satisfied???? What on earth do you mean by that??

Yes...which is why more often than not I walk my dogs individually so they bond more with me and I can address their training issues separately.

Nice if you have the time. Not all of us do.

Cruel?????? Sorry Kirsty you are pushing it a bit. You know there are plenty of members on here who have to keep their dogs onlead and to be called cruel is bang out of order IMO.
As for your OH's dogs...well they couldn't work onlead could they? Some may also question why they are working for 95% of their exercise...dogs need down time too no matter what their job.

did it for the best part of 6 months in the early days with Moll and she still wasn't bouncing of the walls

Then lets hope yours never has to be.

There are many reasons why dogs - even of this breed, that end up having to be kept on a lead. Luckily there are owners out there who can think outside the box and provide a life for the dog that can leave it confident and satisfied.

But to say it is cruel is not fair on the people who have to keep thier dogs on a lead and will do everything in thier power to give the dog the best life they can.