Yes Patch posted the Wandsworth Report: Post 38 if anyone has just joined in this thread.

This one is interesting too.
Dawn,
http://www.vets4docking.org.uk/
and this one, you can actually watch the Boxer puppies being docked, and just how painful and distressful it isnt!
http://www.cdb.org/

My problem is that people seem to think that we should either be all docking, or all not docking.

What about the breeders preferences, or the potential owners preferences.

I have a Boxer with a tail, and asked for him not to be docked. Others in his litter were docked.

If we ever have another dog who is a traditionally docked breed, I would want the choice. That's why I'm not sure a total ban on docking is the way to go.

We used to have choices didnt we? I'd go along with your suggestion Isochick, its a logical, good one.
Dawn.

Well said Isochick

Thanks

I can't see how, if you are on a puppy waiting list for a Boxer (for example), you can't say to the breeder "I'd rather have my puppy undocked"; or if there was no waiting list, it would be up to the breeder to decide what to do.

I'm sure there are breeders out there who would like to not dock, but haven't, for fear of not selling the litter.

Lets face it, if you are desperate for your chosen breed and are not going to work it, what does a tail matter?

I watched the video and it's sickening, poor pups having tight elastic band put on their tails which takes days to drop off - sorry but thats downright cruel

Did you witness screaming puppies in pain and a distressed mother? after all if its cruel it must cause pain, and thats one of the strongest points for anti-dockers, did you see puppies in terrible pain and discomfort?

I hope you dont eat meat after what they do to those animals and not when their nervous systems are not properly developed, at around 3mths old!
Dawn.

Okay...
There is evidence now that young pups could actually be more sensitive to pain than an adult dog.Their apparent 'okayness' with dockng...going to suckle then sleep, could actually be the bodies natural response to pain as it woud release natural analgesics.
As an aside, whilst pregnant I developed quite a large growth on my face. Not nice. I was told, by my practice nurse, to try tying dental floss round it and slowly tightneing it over the course of three to four days. Sound familiar???!
It had it's own blood supply, but no bone,obviously.
I tell you what. Tying it off like that worked...it fell off no problem at all...except it hurt. It was stinging all the time the dental floss was tied on it. I promise you, it wasn't a brilliant feeling and I imagine 'banding' is worse as there is bone involved too.

To be honest though, if there is the slightest element of doubt over the issue of pain, just an inkling, then the practice of docking should be stopped surely???

There are no similarities at all. Ramble has put it most clearly, that reproductive organ disease is something which can strike at any time no matter what the breed, of both genders, and no matter what activites a dog does or does not do.

Incidence of prostate problems alone in unneutered males is extremely high.

http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=914

When an unneutered male dog reaches 8 years of age, he has a greater than 80% chance of developing prostate disease, but it is rarely cancerous (benign or malignant). The gland serves the same function in the dog as it does in man and suffers from all the same diseases. Fortunately for the dog, however, the incidence of life-threatening conditions is much lower. Still, most unneutered canines will at one time or another, suffer a lot of discomfort if not severe pain due to the prostate gland.
...
...
...
Treatment and prevention

Whenever we encounter any of the above problems of the prostate in the dog (there are others, but these make up over 98% of the total cases), we are dealing with long-term and often expensive therapy. For example, the successful treatment of a chronic bacterial prostatitis will usually require 6 to 8 weeks of continuous oral medication, injections, urinary catheterizations, enemas, and possible surgery. In almost all cases, where it is an option, the patient is neutered, because after the testosterone is removed, the gland will shrink and the condition is much easier to treat. This would of course have no effect on a case where cancer was involved.

Over 90% of all prostatic diseases would be prevented during the life of all dogs if the animal was castrated in the first year of life. Neutering will have no effect on the incidence of cancer, but remember this is very rare.

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http://www.vetsurgerycentral.com/prostate.htm

http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpprosta.htm

http://www.seefido.com/canine-dog-he...icle_probl.htm

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These are problems *commonly* faced as potential diseases in every single entire male dog.

Tail injuries among dogs from participation in hunting activies are faced specifically by the dogs *put* in that situation by humans for whatever reason those humans *choose* to hunt.
In not putting those dogs in such situations in the first place, their tails are at no more and no less risk than any other dog of any breed.

Therefore it seems plain, if one does not want ones Spaniels tail to be injured during hunting, then don`t hunt.
Yes prevention is better than cure - prevent putting the dogs in such allegedly perilous situations and they won`t need their tails curing from injuries sustained during that particular human sport/hobby.