Adam, what Im not keen on is that the dog (Jacca) has his tail clamped down when walking by you. That is uncomfortable to watch. he should be pleased to be with you.

Maybe it's because us Welsh are a bunch of uneducated, inbred, coal shoveling sheep-shaggers? I've been called all of them (and worse) at some stage.

Or maybe because we put signs up all over the the place in a language that the majority of the population don't understand - not very bright is it?

Or perhaps because the Welsh assembly is of such a high calibre that it elected Rhodri Morgan as the first minister who was unwilling/unable to give his own opinion on the invasion of Iraq when questioned directly.

Whatever the reason - please don't think it's because the assembly members are any more enlightened than than M.P.'s in England or Scotland.

Seeing as you're so concerned about animal welfare - overall, who do you think causes the most pain and suffering for dogs: someone who uses an e-collar as they want to achieve some end result, or irresponsible breeders? How is it that you managed to accidentally produce a litter from your dogs given that you're such a concerned, responsible, caring dog lover?

Having found out that your bitch was pregnant, did you test the sire/dam for genetic problems? Were the results clear, and if not did you inform the new owners of the pups of any potenial problems? Or did you make it clear to the prospective owners it was an accidental mating and that no health tests had been carried out? Did you make them sign a contract stating that if they were unable to keep the dogs for any reason then they must be returned to you, the breeder? If not why not, after all -you brought them into the world.

And while we're on the point of animal welfare:

Can I safely assume that all your other animals are well cared for? How can I be sure given that you too have had an accidental litter? Would you care to answer the questions I posed above to Zoe to regarding your litter?

How is it that you find the use of an electric collar so disgusting, yet find it quite acceptable to kill animals for leisure? Even if e-collar users are misguided, they are at least well meaning - there is nothing well meaning with regards to shooting animals for fun.

It's not that I'm wholly convinced one way or the other about the use of e-collars (though I do think the Welsh ban is pointless and ineffective), but there is an unpleasant crowd mentality on here if someone dares to stray from the accepted view.

This is a personal attack on me and other posters on here. Such attacks are nasty and uncalled for. You don't know me or them or our circumstances so kindly shut up and stick to the topic!

I'm not sure what MichaelM is on, but that was very much out of order on his part.

agreed, that post wes totaly out of order and should be removed

I was reading another thread today, someone posted about an unplanned pregnancy and was pretty much hounded away from the forum - some of the most cutting comments were by people who have posted on this thread.

It's easy to the moral high ground, but none of us are perfect.

I'd be interested in your answers Zoe.

It's not a personal attack. You seem to be vehemently against the use of e-collars -you're quite within your rights to feel that way.

There are other aspects of welfare that I feel strongly about. Irresposible breeding is one of those. You're criticising someone about their use of e-collars, I'm asking you justify your stance regarding welfare. Is it only certain aspects of welfare which concern you?

This thread is about e-collars and my question was one of genuine interest. I did not expect to be peronally attacked by you. And just for your interest I didn't advertise the pups.....people came and wanted them. I kept one. I would have kept all of them had I not found homes for them all. They all went to vetted homes and they were all checked by the vet before they were homed and wormed and innoculated.
I have just started to do work for a dog rescue who were so impressed by the way I look after my rescue dogs that they trust me implicitly. I have taken on 5 dogs that no-one wanted as they were classed as difficult...I love them and would do anything for them. My greyhound died recently of renal failure and I went straight out and rescued another greyhound. That is how much I care for dogs.
I shouldn't have to answer to you but I find your comments hurtful.
Can we now get back to the topic of e-collars?

Then stick to the subject of e-collars! If you have a look on other threads I post everywhere and my concern is for dogs. I agree with you about irresposible breeding. I made a mistake and my dog got pregnant...I dealt with it....found homes and neutererd her. I am not a dog breeder. As you've already said....no one is perfect.
I disagree with greyhound racing too and others didn't agree with me but not once did anyone launch a nasty attack and call into question my ability to look after dogs. It was a debate...which is what this is.
Back to e-collars........!!

I did start to go off on one, but....

I apologise.

I have no doubt of your good intentions and well done on giving your time to a rescue, I'm sorry to hear about your greyhound - Locky is approaching 12 and I get emotional just thinking about him.

There is sometimes a crowd mentality that develops here, I was lashing out against that, and you happened to catch it.

It's easy to take the moral high ground when in fact none of us are perfect - I'm certainly not. I do though get rather emotional when it comes to the welfare of dogs, even if my priorities don't fall in line with those of others.

I apologise again.

Best regards, and all the best at the shelter.

Michael