...day 13 in some bitches is passed it .. 10 to 14 days is the norm for ovulation though I have had bitches ready/mated at 8 days and 16.

If you have a good experienced little stud dog, you may be ok and he will cope ok with a maiden bitch if she is ready, if you have a tight maiden bitch and an in experienced stud dog you need to know your job.

Would suggest you put them in a small room where you have control, that you hold the bitch and the stud owner 'assists' her dog in doing the job properly. Personally I have never heard of letting dogs loose in the garden for 4 hours and hoping for the best.

Have known bitches to mate as late as 21 days and produce a litter, without testing there is no way to know exactly the best time.

It doesn't sound like you have done enough research - basic things like these should really have been covered by your mentor (so don't be surprised if genuine breeders here are reluctant to help)

Have you read articles like these?:

http://www.dogweb.co.uk/talkdogs/thi...his_12589.html

http://www.dogweb.co.uk/talkdogs/a-q...ing_12882.html

I quite agree - don't think there's any need for forced mating - lets face it - there are hundreds of litters out there from accidental mating - let nature take its course in my humble opinion

In case there is a misunderstanding I was not suggesting a forced mating, experienced people know when a mating is right which is why a virgin, dog or bitch, should be mated to an experienced partner with an experienced owner/handler. And all matings should be supervised, how else will you stop the bitch damaging the dog during the tie?

No no I know that - honest

I'm just a great believer in letting nature take its course - okay so she doesn't get impregnated - no big deal is it?

What genuine breeders/mentors like you eraze? or should I say John Fisher wanna be? presa canario that are not even recognised!! performance dogs and we all know that ain't flyball. I have spent time and money on blood tests, bva hip score, a1 opti tests, just because I am novice don't think I am irrasponsible, send your links to 'profit only' puppy farms websites theres enough out there.I am not that desperate to use vasaline on my dog, maybe I will join an American forum might just get some real advice

No I quite agree paw paw - no need for those links

As long as your bitch and the sire have been relevantly health checked, their lineage checked etc then no problem - I for one was not suggesting for a moment that you are some sort of unscrupulous breeder

All my point is is that, unless this is some sort of money making exercise (which I'm not suggesting it is) is it really any big deal if the dogs don't ' get together'??

And let' face it - it's a well known fact that a lot of mongrels have better health than pedigrees!

*sigh*

Maybe it's just me - and no doubt i will be jumped upon - but it really appears that a lot of the dogweb members these days are acting like nothing more than profit making puppyfarmers themselves. *waits for the poop to hit the fan*

Sorry - but it's disgusting - and I don't like being a member of a community where such idiocy seems to take precidence.

There is GREAT need for those links that Azz posted - for they are how you learn and do research. And if you're not willingto research the breeding of dogs before you do it - then yes - you are very irresponsible. That goes for everyone who thinks it's as easy as 2 +2 = 4

grr.

xx

better luck next time...