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Tang
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Location: Pyla Village, Larnaka, Cyprus
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08-06-2013, 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
The big dog is very tolerant and very well behaved but is obviously uncomfortable with this provocation. I noticed her looking up to you a couple of times? She seems to be waiting for you to help her and when you don't she turns to walk away to avoid further confrontation.
I think you should intervene to give her a break

Agree with the others about the harness, it should come off. She is a lovely old dog though, how did she lose her tail?
Exactly how I read it from that vid. And the pup should be learning how to be around all other dogs. If it is allowed to get away with this constant badgering of Jade (not to mention the earpiercing yapping) it could well think it can behave like that with any other dog it encounters - and not all bigger, older dogs are as tolerant as Jade is (nor are their owners!)

Apache Jade HAS HER TAIL! It is tucked right under her which I always understood, together with her turning away like that, to be a sign of EXTREME STRESS/FEAR/WHATEVER.

To know you sit videoing this and do nothing to stop it makes me quite cross. I just don't understand how you can. Poor Jade.

And again - that harness is not a good fit - no more than her muzzle is a good fit - both look too small and done up too tight for comfort.
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mjfromga
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08-06-2013, 09:31 AM
Jade's tail is fine, it's simply tucked a bit underneath her legs. She's always been a very, very submissive and timid dog, and she does tend to do this when irritated, or even just in general.

Tangutica, the video was taken days ago, you've already given me your opinion... and I don't think there is a good reason to gripe about my behaviors now. I've also already explained why I did nothing... as it's the whole meaning of this entire post, why act surprised now??

The harness fits fine and doesn't bother her, and the muzzle is too small but she doesn't mind it at all, as the larger size bothered her. Already stated that long ago.

Also, as I already said, he does this only with her... so not sure why you bothered to say he needs to be taught not to do this with around other dogs. He doesn't have much interaction with other dogs anyway as there are lots of pit bulls etc. here and I don't trust most of their owners or them.

I refuse, absolutely refuse... to argue with you about it though because I grow weary of repeating myself and people saying something to me just for the sake of it, and I'll say no more about it. See you later.
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mjfromga
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08-06-2013, 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
The big dog is very tolerant and very well behaved but is obviously uncomfortable with this provocation. I noticed her looking up to you a couple of times? She seems to be waiting for you to help her and when you don't she turns to walk away to avoid further confrontation.
I think you should intervene to give her a break

Agree with the others about the harness, it should come off. She is a lovely old dog though, how did she lose her tail?
I've been getting him to stop this, as well as crating him if he persists... she's tolerant with him even when he barks in her face and runs around her in circles. So I'm removing him to aid her.

If you click the video "Jade's Lazy Playtime" at the end of the run time of the video in the OP you can see that Jade has her tail, she just often keeps it tucked when she's near him... and also often in general.
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Mattie
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08-06-2013, 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post
Or should I let them deal with this on their own? Jade is being extremely tolerant, but he's relentless. Slowly but surely, his fear of her growls and snarls has faded tremendously.

Her growls/snarls are almost completely ignored by him now as he's nearly shoulder to shoulder with her and no longer fears her or really respects her space.

Mind you, I've never shouted at Jade or removed (crated) Jade for growling at him, only distracted her a little when he was younger.

Should I start getting him to stop this or removing him to his timeout zone?
Sorry I couldn't watch it all, I got too upset seeing the black dog bullying the other who was doing her best to avoid a conflict. Not sure which dog is which apart from their colouring.

The dog with the harness on was throwing out a lot of signals showing submission but the black dog completely ignored them.

You need to step in and stop the black dog treat the other one like this, time out won't work you need to distract him and give him something else to do. If I let Cyril get away with it he would be the same with my girls, I don't allow it, if I did it could eventually end up with at least one of my girls really attacking Cyril and he would deserve it, I may then end up with a dead dog.

I distract Cyril, sometimes call him to me, throw a toy for him to get, give him a command to do. Once he is doing something else he has forgotten about bullying the girls. If I put him in time out he will start all over again bullying the girls as I haven't taken his focus off it.
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Julie
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08-06-2013, 11:54 AM
Not sure time out in the crate is the best idea unless you want him to see the crate as a punishment, we only use ours for sleeping/eating so it's a pleasant place and Betty likes to go into it.
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mjfromga
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08-06-2013, 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Sorry I couldn't watch it all, I got too upset seeing the black dog bullying the other who was doing her best to avoid a conflict. Not sure which dog is which apart from their colouring.

The dog with the harness on was throwing out a lot of signals showing submission but the black dog completely ignored them.

You need to step in and stop the black dog treat the other one like this, time out won't work you need to distract him and give him something else to do. If I let Cyril get away with it he would be the same with my girls, I don't allow it, if I did it could eventually end up with at least one of my girls really attacking Cyril and he would deserve it, I may then end up with a dead dog.

I distract Cyril, sometimes call him to me, throw a toy for him to get, give him a command to do. Once he is doing something else he has forgotten about bullying the girls. If I put him in time out he will start all over again bullying the girls as I haven't taken his focus off it.
The black dog is the male dog, 6 months old on the 19th of this month, neutered, named Nigredo. Jade is the female dog, 9-10 years old, not spayed named Jade. Just for your personal knowledge.

He does ignore her signals unfortunately He used to react a bit, but not anymore. He's a pushy little guy, and I'm already working on trying to get him to stop... with distracting him and time outs if he persists.

She's a fearful and submissive dog, and she's old and crabby... so you're right... she could possibly snap one day and grab hold of him. Being a GSD/pitty, she could deal tons of damage before I could save him. Don't want that, so working on it!!
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Jackie
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08-06-2013, 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post

The harness fits fine and doesn't bother her, and the muzzle is too small but she doesn't mind it at all, as the larger size bothered her. Already stated that long ago.

.
I disagree, from the video the harness looks far from fine...have not seen the muzzle so can't comment on that,

It's amazing what dogs can put up with and give the impression things don't bother them , just because she does not look bothered having to wear that harness 24/7, does not mean you should leave it on.

It's obvious for all to see its to small for jade , if you wish to ignore that act, then so be it.
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Mattie
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08-06-2013, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post
The black dog is the male dog, 6 months old on the 19th of this month, neutered, named Nigredo. Jade is the female dog, 9-10 years old, not spayed named Jade. Just for your personal knowledge.
Thank you, things now make more sense, Nigredo is now a teenage hooligan, the puppy licence has ended so Jade could turn on him.

He does ignore her signals unfortunately He used to react a bit, but not anymore. He's a pushy little guy, and I'm already working on trying to get him to stop... with distracting him and time outs if he persists.
Nearly 6 months old and neutered, how old was he when he was neutered? This is part of Cyril's problem, he was neutered as a puppy and still has a puppy's mentality but an adult dog's confidence, this can be a nightmare. I used to have some really good information on this but lost it all when the motherboard went in my computer but doing a search I came up with these 2.

http://www.sheltieranch.com/articles...uterInDogs.pdf

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/medical/neuter.shtml

Cyril is the 3rd dog I have had who was neutered as a puppy, the other 2 were bitches but all kept the puppy mentality, one lived till she was 17.5 years old and was a puppy to the end.

She's a fearful and submissive dog, and she's old and crabby... so you're right... she could possibly snap one day and grab hold of him. Being a GSD/pitty, she could deal tons of damage before I could save him. Don't want that, so working on it!!
Sorry working on it isn't good enough, you must stop him every time, he must never be allowed to behave like this at any time.

Why does Jade wear a harness all the time?
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Jackie
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08-06-2013, 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by Mattie;

Why does Jade wear a harness all the time?
For convenience !!!
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Lynn
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08-06-2013, 02:12 PM
Jade is very stressed by Nigredo and yes you do need to intervene and keep taking him away if Jade is not going to do it. As others have said she will eventually and it may not be a pretty sight or fair on either dog.

Please please give Jade reprieve from the harness. Dillon wears a harness for walks and that is what they are for walks not to be worn all the time.
Can you maybe hang them in your bedroom if you are worried about losing them or them being moved.

I felt very sorry for Jade to be honest and feel this is most unfair her being badgered in this way by a rude puppy who needs to be taught manners.
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