Well you would have 9 months of pregnancy to continue thinking about it assuming you got pregnant immediately.

And you are talking about kids 'opening doors' if you decided to keep them apart. They won't be doing that for a while after they are born!

It's always hard to tell from the written word but it seems to me more that you are pondering over whether to keep him or not as you have a prospective new owner sort of lined up - without muddling in the prospect of you having children 'some time in the future'.

Only you know whether you will be happier with or without your dog and whether you think your dog will be happier and better off living with someone else.

But I really can't see the 'prospect' of something that might or will happen in the future being a prime consideration now. A lot of things can happen in the space of a year or so.

I should add that I have, in my long lifetime, rehomed a dog twice. But both times for concrete reasons and things that HAD already happened.

And the first time was because an otherwise friendliest dog in the world who loved all kids took a severe dislike to my baby son once he started 'toddling' and there is NO WAY I would put the dog above the safety of one of my kids.

So, even if you had a dog that didn't have issues before you had children in the future, it is always possible that baby could turn out to be the reason why you couldn't keep it if that turned out to be the case. It is not unknown for it to happen at all. Doesn't have to be a dog you didn't trust to start with.

I understand why you are posting at this time. I too am a "planner" and would worry that, if I did not plan in this situation, then I might regret it at a later date.

If you think there is a good chance you will want/will have children, and if you think that Cain's current trainer is a really good choice of home, I would broach the subject with him and see what he says.

Of course there are many variables - you may not have children, Cain may not be here for as long as you think, Cain might accept your child.. (but then again as you or someone has said, you will need to think about the safety of other children too), or you may end up in a completely different life situation to what you imagine .

But I think you will feel better if you talk to your trainer friend. You don't have to act on anything said - for example, he may say that next time around he wants an easy sociable dog, in which case, you'd then have the information that that was that, and rehoming Cain to him was no longer an option.

Good luck with whatever you decide

Wys
x

I think it's a sensible thing to think about but I don't know the right answer (if there is one) unfortunately. I guess I'm lucky to be in the position of not wanting kids and being with someone who doesn't want kids, so it's not something I will have to consider. You know that Casper's pretty similar to Cain in many aspects and I do worry about how he would be with kids - my brother's son is coming up to 1 and if I happen to visit my mum with the dogs when he's there, I do shut the dogs in her conservatory (it's not a full glass one so doesn't get too warm fortunately) and everyone in the house knows not to mix them - door is kept locked, anyone who needs to go in there alerts someone else who picks up Toby, and the dogs have their harnesses left on to be grabbed easily. They may be absolutely fine but the amount of damage they could do in a split second doesn't bear chancing. But in my situation, there is no need for them to mix - they're around Toby maybe an hour or two once or twice a month and it's no harm to stick them in another room with a Kong for that time. If I had wanted kids, it could be a completely different situation, like you're having to think about now.

I do know someone on another forum who has a young child and a Rottie with issues, so their house is specifically set up with this in mind. Happy to see if they'll share their email for you to speak to them about how this works, with Rotties being clingy guarding breeds too. I do think she might work from home though, and I think they have a good sized house (out in t' country, picked specifically with the dogs in mind). Might just give you another option to consider? It might not be totally impractical - if you decided to try for a baby and fell pregnant at 30, for example, then it's nearly another year until you give birth - so that's 4 years on from now. Cain would be older, calmer, perhaps needing less exercise, and you would only have to worry about the practicalities of Cain and a baby/toddler - rather than having to consider the impact of a dog like him with a teenager who wants to bring friends back to the house, who wanders in and out on their own with the risk of leaving the front door open, etc.

I know I joke about dognapping Cain but in all seriousness, if you found yourself pregnant and Dave wasn't in a position to take Cain, I would be more than happy to try him with my two. We know they get along on walks, it would perhaps take a while to integrate him into the house - but by then, both boys would likely be older and calmer anyway. Not that I'll take any offense if you feel it's not an option - I know how hard it is to trust someone else with a "problem" dog, as we've chatted about before, but I love Cain, OH thinks he's a lovely dog, and although we wouldn't purposely seek a third dog (have been tempted by a few though and he's almost caved!), I don't doubt he'd be happy to accomodate him if necessary too. You know we have the quiet walks, you know I'm happy to keep him on a longline forever if that's what he needs, he can continue to be rawfed and you'd be more than welcome to visit, take him out for walks, etc. Just throwing it out there as an option.

Perhaps speak to Akitagirl, if I remember correctly she had worries about baby Rowan being born with her two dogs.. And Rowan's not that old so it'll be fresh in her mind what she did..

I have the same worry with Louie, his behaviour around children is getting better but I do think he would be better if the child was my own; there wouldn't be so many rules around the child as other people have. (I don't mean safety wise though)

I'm also a planner, but perhaps this is one of those bridges you do have to cross when you get there, and whilst you're waiting to get there - carry on working your bum off, Cain has come on so much and you know it! There's no reason he can't go further, you never know in a few years you could be posting pictures of Cain and your child rolling around with each other, Cain sat under the high chair with your baby throwing food down for him.. you never know.. think positive and get to it when the time comes.

Thanks everyone for your comments and not being too judgemental.

There is a chance he could be ok with my children. I really wish he would be. At the "breeders" house there were three children (aged around 3, 5 and 11 I believe) and as far as I know, he was fine with them....but I have very little information about that home and have no idea how reliable it is. I do know they cried their eyes out when he was taken away, so i guess he wasnt biting them all of the time! But the fact is, he's a very large dog who gives absolutely no warning when he reacts (if only he would growl, we could remove him), he just goes. Even supervised contact could turn bad very quickly, without time to react. It would be a split second thing, and I really don't think it could honestly risk that with any child......

Karly, thanks so much for your offer You would be another person on my (VERY) short list of people who I could trust with Cain I looked at him last night and could have cried. He's a totally nightmare half the time....but he's MY nightmare and I don't want to even contemplate rehoming him. But I also know I do want children....however I do not plan to have them within the next few years.

What I think I'll do is raise it with my trainer just to see what he can invisage happening should I have children. It would be interesting to hear his opinion. I don't want to make cast iron plans, but I think it might be worth raising now. But essentially, I know I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it...,

Hi Amanda, seems like a horrible situation to be in/thinking about.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by him being 'unpredictable' please?

What is his history prior to you getting him and what have you witnessed yourself? (And what makes you concerned about him being around children.)

I don't know much about his history, just that he had five homes and little socialisation. I only know of the children in the breeder home. It's not that I specifically don't trust him around children, I don't trust him around anyone except the select few that he knows very well. What concerns me specifically about kids is that he is big, they are small and both are unpredictable.

Cain, thankfully, has never actually bitten anyone and has displayed some level of bite inhibition. However he did once take a man's hand in his mouth (didn't put any pressure on or mark it) and he has nipped clothes.

Cain is unpredictable in as much as he will appear fine, suddenly he will decide he is uncomfortable and react in a flash. There is no growling, no obvious body language (I'm sure it's there, but it's too quick and subtle to allow me to react to it), he's is like "la la la, I'm fine......raaaaaaah!".

When he reacts with adults, he always lunges up towards their faces which is very scary. I don't believe he is trying to actually bite them, it's a big display to say "Get Away", he doesn't go in for repeat attacks, it's literally a huge lunge and roar with "Get Off!" as the message.

Problem is, if he does it to a child, he is sooooo big and heavy, he could seriously injure them. Their face is obviously a lot lower to the ground. Although he's never bitten, I totally believe he had the potential too. Also, he's reacted to very minor things from adults. Kids are far more unpredictable and may well freak him out more. That said, he has never lunged at a child in the street and he has been patted by a few older children in the park and even rolled over for a belly rub. Thing is, I could never ever trust him as you can never read when he will decide to react and when he does, it could seriously hurt a child....

If I were you Amanda, I would be going through the same thought processes too. The prospect of a superb alternative long term home has simply crystalised your thoughts. You have put a humbling amount of thought, time, effort and money into Cain, but are realistic about the long term prospects. I have seen you working with him on a Dogsey walk and at the end you were exhausted. I was surprised you stayed upright for the duration of the walk. Battling with such a large boisterous dog through a pregnancy would also be a concern. You know him best and I am sure you will do what is right for him and for you. Good luck whatever you decide.

He sounds like lots of other adolescent dogs I know

Our new neighbours dog does a lot of what you are saying - puts hands in mouth, jumps up to face, paws you, barks to try and get his way, growls etc everything I connect to him being an adolescent - I am sure he will grow out of it just as Rocky did.

How old is Cain? Obviously without seeing him in person it's difficult to tell, but he sounds as though he just needs work on his manners - maybe he just hasn't got out of that adolescent stage? (Like we see with so many humans lol)

I'm guessing you are worrying needlessly - but obviously can't be sure as I don't live with him or have had personal contact with him.

You mention his trainer - what does he think?