Id never breed from a dog that couldnt do the job it was designed for (my breed) showing would be secondary to a point, i.e a dog like Orey who was burned as a puppy and not showed, he is a cracking dog but will never see the show ring, works like a dream though.

I differ on what is major and minor. Some people say a dog doesnt like showing when in fact it is a nervous dog anyway, shy in many situations. This to me is MAJOR. Minor would be a lightish eye, easily corrected and will never be of detriment to the dog.

Exactly!! well said
Health, temprament and longevity first
Fit for function - working ability important

whether the nose or eyes are the right colour or if it has enough of a flash coat for the show ring - not important unless you are only breeding for rosettes

Yes I do think its acceptable to bred from a dog that has a minor breed fault, BUT and I emphasise this, it must only be dont by those who know their lines and the lines of the dogs they are using , back to front.

Many a champion has been bred from a mediocre dog,

But it in important that the person who is doing the breeding is knowledgeable in their breed.

Its easy to just say, well dog A has this minor fault, so I will mate it to dog B to hopefully eradicate that fault, unless you are 100% sure of both the lines beign used, you are in danger of producing much of the same faults for the next generations to come.



I dont think breeders aim for the "perfect dog" it is not out there, and never will be, I think breeders aim to improve their lines and get as near to breed standard as possible, but then thats down to interpretation too.




I agree, temperament is a major issue and should always be taken into consideration.

For me if Temperament is iffy, it should never be bred from, even if its the best example of the breed you can find.


Its extremey important, if you leave out "conformation" you end up with something that looks nothing like what it is supposed to be.

Temperament /type/ health , all three have to be good , if you lack one, you should not breed!!

A minor conformation fault can be corrected in the next generation, if done correctly, at the end of the day, you want a dog that resembles its breed, otherwise you lose the breed!!

I think it depends on the fault tbh, no dog is perfect, but I would much rather have any faults be something like coats or ear placement rather then health.

I think the breeders main job is realising what faults their dog has, judging whether that dog should be bred, and why, and then finding a dog who compliments them faults, in the hope that the pups will be better then the parents.

I don't believe though that only champs etc should be bred, and maybe in some cases they shouldn't its a sad fact that I think is well known that faces and favours can increase the results that certian dogs get, and when things like that happen it can be well not the best thing to happen to the breed, as the dogs are not being judged themselves.

So I feel that in all honestly, honesty is what should be used when going to breed dogs, whether the fault is minor or not, and whether a suitable partner can be found, if the fault is major, or a suitable mate can not be found then the dog should not be bred from, dogs should only be bred IMO if its to improve the breed, and breeds can not be improved if people are not going to the best they can get for their individual dog, which could end up being at the other end of the country, or it could be next door, it doesn't matter, a breeder should IMO be willing to go the distance to be able to breed their dog with the best match that they can, well maybe not to America or Europe, unless the dog is going to be imported for another reason.

Thats my thoughts anyway.

Oh and DD is something in the water, I remember you saying that you wouldn't breed but your mum does, has that changed? .

My feeling is that health, temperament and working ability should come before the show ring.
Conformation is important but I find it hard to trust what goes on in the show ring sometimes.

In what way Tassle?

I have never had a huge amount to do with showing, but I have a few people who come training with me who are very into it, and the lady I used to work for bred and showed Manchester's.

I have often been quite shocked about the dogs who have been awarded prizes with very obvious faults.....and I have been standing next to people who can pick out a line up depending on the judge. Does not inspire you with confidence....

Oh...and someone with springers who gets all the people who show his pups to get trousers from a certain tailor in a special colour so the judge will know who bred the dog.

Cant say any of that Is wrong! Not good Is It
For alot of shows you can guess who will get the CC's and BOB In your breed depending on your judge! Faceys judges are not worth the money would rather spend the day on the beach with the dogs or up the woods lol. I always give a judge a chance though, but If their facey I wouldnt be overly bothered about rushing to give them the entrie again

....it does tend to make showing a low priority.

would some who wantedto breed show, want to buy something out of or by dogs that werent proven in the ring?