Plenty of people don't do that, regardless of size. The best looking aren't always the healthiest, as we know.

I would disagree. I've seen working border collies who weigh no more than 25-30 pounds and I've seen ones who weigh 50. They're healthy dogs who are great at their job.

Remember this has ALREADY been done. Poodles have been miniaturized (and toy-ized); Schnauzers come in three sizes as well. This has been done and CAN be done if you are careful.

It can also be done slowly. Normally a dog who is 3 or 4 pounds under the "ideal" weight for the show ring will be given up as a pet, no matter what it's health, temperament and working ability. But if you breed those dogs together, you'll start making the dogs smaller. Then you move down the ladder. I'm not talking about breeding the 30 lb offspring of 60 lb parents. I'm talking about breeding dogs who weight 52 lbs when the breed standard says 55-65.

Breeding for small versions of large dogs annoys the heckfire out of me!!! ESPECIALLY mini Aussies. They are not Aussies. They really don't even look like aussies. There has obviously been outcrossing to other breeds to get that glorified mutt of a dog.

Here is what he Australian Shepherd Club of America has to say about the mini-aussie
"The Miniature Australian Shepherd, North American Shepherd, North American Miniature Australian Shepherd, and/or Toy Australian Shepherd breeds are not recognized as a variety of Australian Shepherd by ASCA. The club considers such dogs to be a distinct and separate breed and will not accept them into its registry."

Mini Aussies have loads of health problems and most that I've known that were purchased as agility hopefuls were too structurally unsound. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole!

Another mini becoming more popular is the "comfort retriever" achieved by crossing golden retrievers with cocker spaniels then crossing the crosses. No regard to health of any of the dogs of course.

I agree that no dog should be bred to the detriment of it's health or not allowed to behave naturally but there are many reasons people may prefer small dogs and I supposed by 'normal sized' you mean collie sized?

Actually I think that it is generally accepted that the Miniature Schnauzer was bred down in size from the Standard by out-crossing to Affenpinschers. So does this mean that a Miniature Schnauzer should be counted as a mutt?

I'd like to reiterate that I am against any unethical breeding that leads to any health issues but just because it seems that most of this miniaturization of breeds is carried out by unscrupulous and unethical breeders doesn't make the process itself necessarily evil.

J.

In which case we'd have to accept EVERY dog as a mutt.

Labs: The modern Labrador's ancestors originated on the island of Newfoundland, now part of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada.[5] The breed emerged over time from the St. John's Water Dog, (also a founding breed of the Newfoundland dog) through ad-hoc breedings by early settlers in the mid to late 16th century.[5] The forebears of the St. John's Dog are not known, but were likely a random-bred mix of English, Irish, and Portuguese working breeds.

Newfoundlands: The Newfoundland (known then as the Greater Newfoundland) is likely a result of the St. John's Dog breeding with mastiffs brought to the island by the generations of Portuguese fishermen who had been fishing offshore since the 1600s.

Golden retriever: The original cross was of a yellow-coloured Retriever, Nous, with a Tweed Water Spaniel female dog, Belle.


So by some people's standards ALL our dogs are mutts.

I believe that any extreme characteristic which is deliberately bred for cannot be a good thing - either extremely small/extremely large sizes, shortened faces, shortened legs, longer bodies, hairless, etc. etc. (there are so many extremes to choose). When an "extreme feature" leads to an animal having health problems or a difficult life then I believe it is wrong to do it for the sake of having something "different" or unusual, or something which we think is more beautiful.

A small pup from a litter does not mean it is a runt - conversely neither does the biggest one in a litter mean it is going to be the most robust.

I cannot comment on Klee Kai dogs as I have no experience of them.

I totally agree with this, but if someone wants to ethically breed a dog that looks like a small husky then I have no problem with this. (However according to her own website sadly the origins of the Klee Kai were anything but )

J.