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dragonfly
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Location: Dordogne, France
Joined: Mar 2012
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Female 
 
06-05-2012, 08:00 PM
Hi Brierley,
Yes Ted does like to be carried usually (a recent exception was when my daughter dropped her pencils and I picked Ted up to put him in another room while we cleared up. He really wanted to "help" but only wriggled wanting to get down, he did not get nasty)

Ted is not permitted up on sofas, beds etc yet. If the children want him on their lap, they have to do it on a cushion on the floor. In the breeder's house, Ted was the favorite puppy of the 12 yr old boy who lived there and he was apparently spoiled a lot with human-food treats and sleeping on sofas so he still tries to get up on ours from time to time. He responds to a verbal "off" now with no problems at all.

His bed is in the corner of a living room and he is very rarely disturbed by through traffic or playing children as they have another room to play in (this prevents Ted from getting to their toys too). He has a cage in the kitchen for times when we have boistrous visitors (and I want to keep him apart from such children or when I need him to calm down if he is over stimulated)
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dragonfly
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06-05-2012, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Waking him up with a treat is not setting him up for a lifetime of needing treats - but it isnt such a bad routine

I had a similar thing with my girl, when I first got her I wanted her to come up to bed with me at night
She was settled and happy on the sofa
When I asked her she froze and staired at me and I have no doubt she would have snapped

I went to the kitchen and got some treats - one to get her off the sofa, one to get her to follow me and some to have in the bedroom with me

in less than a week she was running up the stairs to get her 'bedtime sweety' which was just a tiny bit of kibble
I could have faided it out no problem - but it was a routine I was happy with


lol at the sausage - dirty ladies
Thank you for sharing, this gives me hope
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Magpyex
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Location: North-East Birmingham, UK
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06-05-2012, 08:04 PM
I too have a grumpy little dog who doesn't like to be woken and if I want to get her out at night (Or if I want her to go outside when it is raining ) treats are our usual recourse! Usually something of high value such as sausage or cheese - anything smelly and really tasty that they don't usually get

Personally, I agree with everyone who has suggested treats & gently rousing him with your voice. Perhaps try calling him to you & rewarding with a treat instead of disturbing him while he's in his bed? Also, I would make his bedtime wee something nice that he enjoys Lots of fuss, praise and coaxing with treats so that he comes to enjoy it, rather than resent it.
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Kerryowner
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06-05-2012, 08:15 PM
Just a point about this behaviour being more typical for terriers-I have 2 Kerry Blues and have had another Kerry and 3 Cairn terriers in the past and none of them would do this. I don't know if other terrier owners have had this problem?

Our newest dog Izzy is quite vocal when you do something she doesn't appreciate like wiping her feet on a towel after a walk, but she is a vocal dog anyway!

I get my dogs up and outside last thing at night by the command "widdles and biscuits" and they know that if they have a wee they get a last night cookie as a reward.
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muddymoodymoo
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07-05-2012, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by dragonfly View Post
I agree it is not good, which is why I am here asking for help. I believe our relationship is excellent but am willing to be proven otherwise if we can stop this problem with positive methods.
You say you’ve taught your puppy ‘sit, down, roll over etc’. Well done.

But what are his ‘manners’ like?

When you go to open the door to let him out in the garden, does he
A) follow you calmly and wait patiently for you to open the door (=good)
B) pace and whine, run around barking and jumping, urging you to get on with it (=not so good)

When he is finished in the garden does he
A) wait patiently and quietly for you to open the door and let him in (=good)
B) scratch the door, whine, bark or throw himself against the door (=not so good)

When you want to play with him does he
A) patiently with soft eye contact wait for you to throw the ball or initiate tug of war (=good)
B) jump at your hand trying to rip the toy out of your hand, his teeth making good contact with your skin(=not so good)

When you get his collar/lead out does he
A) wait patiently whilst you kit him out, put your shoes and coat on, pick up your keys (=good)
B) run around like a lunatic, hide, jump on or over furniture - not wanting to be caught (=not so good)

When you offer him a treat does he
A) take it gently, only his lips and tongue making contact with your fingers (=good)
B) snatch it hurriedly not caring about his teeth hurting you (=not so good)

Does he happily allow you to touch every single part of his body, clip his nails, examine his eyes, ears and teeth without squirming, trying to get away, growling or nipping?

The above are just some examples of what I consider good basic manners. I personally don’t ask my dogs to sit, lie down etc at the curb, when putting collars on, letting the dogs off lead and so on. What I want is calmness and patience. Nor do I use treats when teaching the above. Only because I found that treats and commands create excitement which is exactly the opposite of what I am looking for. However if treats work for you then you them.

In my experience once you start identifying and modifying some of the unwanted, unacceptable or unnatural behaviours, other undesirable behaviours will disappear as your puppy’s attitude towards you and your family alters.
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muddymoodymoo
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07-05-2012, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
I'm obviously a 'horrible' dog owner! She'd only have to do that once and I wouldn't bother with the treats and coaxing - I'd have that collar and lead on her and DRAG HER out of her pit and outside!

I often have to retrieve her from my bed for the last late wee walk. She doesn't want to go and will try diving under the covers or just sitting there looking at me - I tip her off the bed and put the lead on and take the unwilling little bint out to pee.

Have to say she has never growled at me or shown any signs other than 'WHAT? I'M SLEEPING HERE!'

It was the same when she first experienced RAIN in Cyprus (having lived the first 9 months of her life without any. We stopped saying 'taking the dog out for a walk' and said instead 'taking the dog out for a DRAG' and you DID have to drag her!
I have also been a 'bad owner'. When my dog growled when I moved his bed in order to get to a cupboard, I kept moving the bed until he realised that the bed will stop moving only when he stops growling. It didn't take very long.
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lilypup
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08-05-2012, 07:00 AM
I would be suspicious that something has happened to him at the breeders. I can't see that it is normal behaviour for such a young pup to display. I can understand it in older dogs for various reasons, but not a youngster.

I have 3 terriers, 2 I've had from pups and one, who is approx 7/9, I've had a couple of months. I can wake them without a problem and Alfie, my 18 month, 18 kilo Staffie, has to be literally carried out for his last wee. Especially if it's raining!

I agree with waking him with a nice treat and letting him see that it's a good thing to have you near his bed.

The only other thing is are you happy that his hearing is ok?
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Milk maid
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08-05-2012, 07:25 AM
There is an old saying "Let sleeping dogs lie" I am sure that this comes from the fact that when some dogs are fast asleep then to wake them you have to do it carefully.
I will growl if suddenly woken that's for sure .
So as others have said do it from a distance by calling his name to wake him, I have only ever had one dog do this to me and strangely his name was Ted calling him "Oi Ted allez up wee wee time" sorted the problem out right away.
With my lot now all I have to say in a quiet voice last thing at night is "doggies out" and from fast asleep there is a mad dash for the door.
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dragonfly
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Location: Dordogne, France
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08-05-2012, 09:50 AM
First of all, thank you for taking the time to reply to my thread everyone

Originally Posted by muddymoodymoo View Post
You say you’ve taught your puppy ‘sit, down, roll over etc’. Well done.

But what are his ‘manners’ like?
Pretty good tbh, especially considering his young age. I am aware that they may slide as he reaches adolescence

When you go to open the door to let him out in the garden, does he
A) follow you calmly and wait patiently for you to open the door (=good) Yes he does but I didn't train to do this
B) pace and whine, run around barking and jumping, urging you to get on with it (=not so good) No

When he is finished in the garden does he
A) wait patiently and quietly for you to open the door and let him in (=good) sometimes
B) scratch the door, whine, bark or throw himself against the door (=not so good) Usually I am with him so this is irrelevant. On occasions where he is shut out, sometimes he whines, but then how else is he going to let me know that I've forgotten him?

When you want to play with him does he
A) patiently with soft eye contact wait for you to throw the ball or initiate tug of war (=good) yes he does this naturally
B) jump at your hand trying to rip the toy out of your hand, his teeth making good contact with your skin(=not so good) not with me but he has done this on occasion with my children - but then he is still a very young puppy and is still learning to control himself. I think it will take me longer to teach my children to calm down tbh

When you get his collar/lead out does he
A) wait patiently whilst you kit him out, put your shoes and coat on, pick up your keys (=good) yes
B) run around like a lunatic, hide, jump on or over furniture - not wanting to be caught (=not so good) no

When you offer him a treat does he
A) take it gently, only his lips and tongue making contact with your fingers (=good) usually
B) snatch it hurriedly not caring about his teeth hurting you (=not so good) he has done this but not recently

Does he happily allow you to touch every single part of his body, clip his nails, examine his eyes, ears and teeth without squirming, trying to get away, growling or nipping?
he doesn't mind any part of his body being touched, sometimes he squirms if he'd rather be doing something else such as play with the cat!

The above are just some examples of what I consider good basic manners. I personally don’t ask my dogs to sit, lie down etc at the curb, when putting collars on, letting the dogs off lead and so on. What I want is calmness and patience. Nor do I use treats when teaching the above. Only because I found that treats and commands create excitement which is exactly the opposite of what I am looking for. However if treats work for you then you them.

In my experience once you start identifying and modifying some of the unwanted, unacceptable or unnatural behaviours, other undesirable behaviours will disappear as your puppy’s attitude towards you and your family alters.
I have answered your questions in green.

Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
I would be suspicious that something has happened to him at the breeders. I can't see that it is normal behaviour for such a young pup to display. I can understand it in older dogs for various reasons, but not a youngster.

I have 3 terriers, 2 I've had from pups and one, who is approx 7/9, I've had a couple of months. I can wake them without a problem and Alfie, my 18 month, 18 kilo Staffie, has to be literally carried out for his last wee. Especially if it's raining!

I agree with waking him with a nice treat and letting him see that it's a good thing to have you near his bed.

The only other thing is are you happy that his hearing is ok?
Food for thought - maybe something did happen at the breeders?
I think his hearing is OK. He heard a fox bark on the other side of the valley today and was very alert to it.

Originally Posted by Milk maid View Post
There is an old saying "Let sleeping dogs lie" I am sure that this comes from the fact that when some dogs are fast asleep then to wake them you have to do it carefully.
I will growl if suddenly woken that's for sure .
So as others have said do it from a distance by calling his name to wake him, I have only ever had one dog do this to me and strangely his name was Ted calling him "Oi Ted allez up wee wee time" sorted the problem out right away.
With my lot now all I have to say in a quiet voice last thing at night is "doggies out" and from fast asleep there is a mad dash for the door.
We haven't had any growling or snapping since I started this post. He has been woken by voice and the aroma of chicken skin for the last couple of nights. Yesterday I lured him out into the garden with it

One last thing that I noticed yesterday is that he appears to have a tapeworm. He does eat mice and birds that he gets from the cat so I am not surprised. I wonder if tapeworm(s) would make him any more grumpy?
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3dognight
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Location: Canada
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Posts: 1,536
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10-05-2012, 09:35 PM
im glad to hear that training is going well.i do also agree with using the nose,to wake your dog,it will come ,im sure.good luck
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