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darasa
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12-09-2006, 07:57 PM
Hi Sara
I have to say I agree with BorderDawn and Novavizz..there is a massive difference between older children and a toddlers relationship with a dog...
I really don't think that this is a situation that any owner of a rescue dog "good with kids" would forsee and you certainly should not blame yourself, after all Tia is Tia, you don't know every thing about her history, only what the surrendering owners told the rescue and what the rescue were able to find out whilst she was in their care.. and a 2yr old is exactly that 2yrs old.. clumsy loud loving and annoying in equal parts!
It really does sound like she might not be the best dog for your family..
Whatever your decision I am sure it will not be taken lightly and there will be plenty of help and support whatever you decide is right for all of you!
Hugs
Rachel
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Lucky Star
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12-09-2006, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Hmmmmm Staffie or any dog I think would protest if a 2yr. old layed on them! No?!
I was just thinking this. I know growling can be worrying with young children but I do think it might be a bit much for the dog to have a child lie on him, even a 2 year old - maybe the dog just doesn't like it, maybe the child was a bit heavy or maybe it hurt or something?

But I do also agree with what others have said too and you don't want your littlun getting hurt. Definitely check with the rescue centre.
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Trixybird
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12-09-2006, 08:34 PM
Read your post, and what a worry, best to safe than sorry
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Brundog
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12-09-2006, 09:05 PM
I am in two minds to be honest as my Bruno will grol when you lay your head on him or if you play fight etc with him - and its a low growl and genuinely could be confused with an agry growl - I just know it totally isnt, he is very vocal when you get on the floor with him.

IUts real;ly hard to say - but you cant expect a dog that is not used to being laid on top just accept it and a growl if it is a warning growl is just that - a warning not to do it again.

Perhaps you could get your two year old involved when you feed Tia or get him to give her treats etc to make her less wary of him. i do understand your position but I dont know how aware you are of the growl differences, people who didnt know Bruno's range of vocal things would think his growl when i put my head on him is aggressive and it really isnt.

Contact the rescue and see if they can give you some ideas, but I dont necessarily agree with Borderdawn and nissanmad as I do think that staffies grolws can be really misjudged. although I do understand the intention behind the advice.

good luck dani
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Sara1210
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12-09-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by Brundog View Post
I am in two minds to be honest as my Bruno will grol when you lay your head on him or if you play fight etc with him - and its a low growl and genuinely could be confused with an agry growl - I just know it totally isnt, he is very vocal when you get on the floor with him.

IUts real;ly hard to say - but you cant expect a dog that is not used to being laid on top just accept it and a growl if it is a warning growl is just that - a warning not to do it again.

Perhaps you could get your two year old involved when you feed Tia or get him to give her treats etc to make her less wary of him. i do understand your position but I dont know how aware you are of the growl differences, people who didnt know Bruno's range of vocal things would think his growl when i put my head on him is aggressive and it really isnt.

Contact the rescue and see if they can give you some ideas, but I dont necessarily agree with Borderdawn and nissanmad as I do think that staffies grolws can be really misjudged. although I do understand the intention behind the advice.

good luck dani
Thanks Dani

There is definately a difference between her growls.

When i play tug of war with her although she is growling she is also wagging her tail, and you just know it isn`t a warning. I cant explain the difference but there definately is one. When she growled at Rocky this afternoon, she gave him a side ways look, and in my experiance that normally means a dog is about to bite

But i do appreciate what your saying, and i do understand how they could be confused
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Zetacharlie
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13-09-2006, 09:31 AM
re:different growls- my Jack Russell growls when she plays, when she wants me to play, if someone walks past the house she doesn't like the look of they are all different growls ! But I couldn't put my hand on heart and say that I was certain 100% of the time how to interpret the growl- 99% maybe......but like with your staffie that 1% uncertainty could make the difference as to whether your child gets bitten. Not worth the risk at all.
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Kimbles
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13-09-2006, 09:55 PM
when it comes to your kids no matter how much you love your dog, the kids come first
you would never live with yourself if tia hurt any of your babies, and best to take her back before she bites anyone or her chances of being re-homed are slim

i know how much it hurts, i had to take my beloved nemo to the rescue in april this year and my heart still aches and i still miss him, but i did it for him

good luck and big hugs x x x
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linds1917
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17-09-2006, 05:29 PM
My advice for what its worth is defentily get in contact with the rescue centre.
you may sadly find tia needs to be rehomed with older children.
and if she does, take comfort in the fact that she will be happier in the end and you've done your job as a mother.
Also the other alternative might be a lot worse, you can have a injured child on your hands and a dog what would have to be destroyed.
I would imagine you might even be able to do a dog behaviour course at your local vets and they might get to the route of the problem for you.
My mum and i both have staffies and my mothers can get a tad funny with the grand kids and to us thats a warning that hes had enough of them. so in the other room he goes, hes never left on his ownthe children. but i dont have to live with him. and honestly i couldnt.
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kyektulu
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17-09-2006, 05:53 PM
I think maybe you should try some dominence exercises with Tia, she has to learn that she is not in charge, that she is the lowest in 'the family pack' and your little toddler is higher up in the rankings than her.

Dogs still have thier pack instincts and is she isnt taught to be submissive to your toddler she thinks she is higher in rankings than him.

Things that she dosent like, like your toddler climbing on her, she will warn him by growling, and if that dosent work she will eventually nip him, not nastily but as a warning, obviously this is not right so you need to show Tia 'her place'.

All normal dogs understand the act of submission to a superior animal or human.
Training a pet dog for acceptable behaviour as a lower member of a family pack is aided by using some of the methods a canine pack leader would use to maintain discipline.

Once a actual bid for dominence has taken place, which it has by Tia being aggressive towards your son, it is often nessacery to apply more physical means to subdue the dog.

Subbmission is usually expressed by a dog which rolls over onto its back exposing its abdomen and stomach, usually to be tickled.
They do this as in the wild it is the greatest sign of submission, the dog is leaving itself vunerable to attack by an aggressor, it is in effect, a surrender.

I think the best way to assert dominence onto the dog by your son may be to push the dog into this position and carefully let you son hold Tia down, for many minutes maybe, untill she accepts she is not dominent and no longer struggles.
If she acts up again, repeat this.

Also never letting Tia sit higher than your son, so she must always be either in her dog bed or on the floor, in the pack the leader sleeps highest up.

It may be worth you investing in a dog training book, or a book on dog psyche.

If alls else fails, I think it might be best getting in touch with the rescue center.

I wish you luck.
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SarahJ
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17-09-2006, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by kyektulu View Post
I think maybe you should try some dominence exercises with Tia, she has to learn that she is not in charge, that she is the lowest in 'the family pack' and your little toddler is higher up in the rankings than her.

Dogs still have thier pack instincts and is she isnt taught to be submissive to your toddler she thinks she is higher in rankings than him.

Things that she dosent like, like your toddler climbing on her, she will warn him by growling, and if that dosent work she will eventually nip him, not nastily but as a warning, obviously this is not right so you need to show Tia 'her place'.

All normal dogs understand the act of submission to a superior animal or human.
Training a pet dog for acceptable behaviour as a lower member of a family pack is aided by using some of the methods a canine pack leader would use to maintain discipline.

Once a actual bid for dominence has taken place, which it has by Tia being aggressive towards your son, it is often nessacery to apply more physical means to subdue the dog.

Subbmission is usually expressed by a dog which rolls over onto its back exposing its abdomen and stomach, usually to be tickled.
They do this as in the wild it is the greatest sign of submission, the dog is leaving itself vunerable to attack by an aggressor, it is in effect, a surrender.

I think the best way to assert dominence onto the dog by your son may be to push the dog into this position and carefully let you son hold Tia down, for many minutes maybe, untill she accepts she is not dominent and no longer struggles.
If she acts up again, repeat this.

Also never letting Tia sit higher than your son, so she must always be either in her dog bed or on the floor, in the pack the leader sleeps highest up.

It may be worth you investing in a dog training book, or a book on dog psyche.

If alls else fails, I think it might be best getting in touch with the rescue center.

I wish you luck.

What a load of tosh, if i am in bed and my husband comes to bed later and makes a load of noise and disturbs me does that make me dominant by shouting at him to be quiet? lol

I really hate these dominance theories when you haven't even seen the dog so can't establish if thats true or not.

Personally the dog being a rescue you really need to establish 1st why its doing this, has it been mistreated by children in the past? etc by enforcing the 'dominance' related theory you could actually make an already nervous/anxious dog a whole lot worse.
I certainly wouldnt be letting a 2year old toddler force a dog into a submissive position!!!!!

In these delicate cases (i mean delicate as children are involved) forums really shouldn't be consulted but a recognised behaviourist or in this case the rescue that placed the dog.
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