I also 'sat on the fence', and here's why.

I recently hired the services of a Dog Listener (similar to Cesar's in many ways), a method of 'training' that is totally based upon the pack and the Alpha/Alpha pair. I've also had my Boxer trained using the click & treat method.

The Dog Listener method cost me £140 for one consultation, and that was my lot. The clicker method cost me £25 per hour and I had three sessions.

Basically, the methods taught by the Dog Listener have, for me and my dog, proved to be a total waste of time and money (if any body would like to read my report on Amicihien Bonding, please PM me). My dog is not a wild wolf and I am not an Alpha wolf. I firmly believe that my dog knows I'm not another dog, he knows I'm a different species.

However, I do believe it's important for the dog to view the human as boss, and to have boundaries. My Boxer knows I'm the boss, and shows me respect. When he doesn't show me respect, he is calmy shown that it is not a good idea to mess with me.

It's difficult to move away from the word, although it has been taken out of proportion.
Children don't see adults as 'the domineering boss' but rather look up to them, and depend on them.
They, like dogs do what works.
Simple as.

CM does not pin he Alpha Rolls which do not happen in domestic or wild situations. I have never seen him pin down a dog, but he has Alpha rolled lots of dogs. "Alpha rolls" seen in wolves are not the Alpha rolling the lower member over, but the lower member offering submission to avoid being hurt/told off.

They do not bite(CM's own words for his sssh & finger poke he calls it"the bite")to stop behaviour they deem inappropriate He often says that's the "bite"which stops the behaviour as dogs do to each other.

However I have yet to see an established canine Alpha use bites or pinning to subdue the behaviours(especially aggression)that CM uses his"bites" & Alpha rolls for. Certainly the dogs I have owned that have been Alphas(had a few as I have had a number of dogs)especially the GSDs have never had to resort to physical punishment Their body language said it all, Alpha(canine)here at the moment is my smallest Cavalier a low growl from him has the two BC's removing themselves from his presence if their play has become too boisterous for him or stopping altogether. He never does anything else apart from a steely stare if they even look at him whilst he he eating ! Actually the animal Alphas here are actually the felines, they eat the dogs food if they feel like it(from all the dogs BTW)lie in their beds, force the dogs off their beds, use the dogs as cushions & chase them(the cats that is doing the chasing)& they refuse to be chased by the dogs giving them the feline "Come on if you think you are hard enough"look if the dogs go into chase mode & they remain sitting.

The problem is that the studies that the "Dominance"theory dog whisperers/listeners base their theories on are basically)unrelated artificial wolf packs kept in captivity. These wolves do not show the same behaviour as truly wild packs, they often have multiple litters(which is an exceptionally rare occurrence in the wild & usually seeing the lower females litter either killed or taken over by the Alpha & the lower female driven out), they do not have to hunt so do not show the true feeding patterns(ie the Alphas always eating first). Because they are generally started by the combining of several unrelated animals rather than the two that happens in the wild, the later pack members are not as closely related as truly wild packs.

I spent quite a long time researching various studies of real wolf packs(David Mech's research is awesome)watching videos, films & actual wild packs(not for as much time as I could have wished though)These Dominance experts would be shocked no doubt to see the liberties cubs & young wolves are allowed by all the adults & also the games that even the Alphas play enjoying themselves.

One dominance theory is that cuddling & stroking dogs is alien to natural behaviour, but in the wild in cold weather wolves sleep closely packed together with the youngest being in the warmest place to preserve the inheritance of the pack. They also mutual groom(lower & Alphas grooming each other)a trait that is often seen in some domestic dogs especially if they are related

Most non inherited behavioural problems in dogs goes back to bad rearing or schooling as young puppies/dogs. If only owners would teach their dogs what they hold as acceptable behaviour & give their dogs some education(even very basic)the occurrence of these behavioural problems would all but disappear. many people do not realise that dogs go through puberty just like all animals, they have a learning stage(young puppies)through to a Kevin stage(the rebellious teenager with raging hormones)& think the behaviour is "dominance"when in fact it is nothing of the sort & simply their dog growing up

Well I have seen CM 'Pin' dogs, and like I said, just because you've never seen a behaviour for yourself does not mean it does not exist

Like I said, I never condoned what CM does !

i just try to be a leader, but pup does sit on my lap, only when invited, he sleeps on my bedroom floor but comes in the bed when invited! he eats more times of the day so cant really follow that rule, and i go through doors before him!

if i gave into his wining he would do it all the more so i try to have some rules !!

He does far more Alpha Rolling(a friend in the USA has watched all his videos & TV programs & clocked up well over 100 Alpha Rolls -including the Bulldog that bit him ! The pinning was far less & in the most cases totally unneeded He actually Alpha rolled a tiny Chi puppy & used that rope under the ears bit to get it to walk on lead-poor lil s*d was traumatised

The worse thing however that he did on TV was to try to force a rescue dog to walk & swim using it's back legs, never took it to a vet for a whole month & it turned out that the poor thing had neurological problems & died just afterwards, this dog he tried to say was dominant because it refused to walk

thats awful! i used to really like him, but when i flick him on now i just dont know really

I enjoyed watching him as well.

However, I think what you need to remember is, it's television...it's a production. I often wonder how much they don't show.

Apparently, he almost throttled a dog to death that was at his centre that was perceived as 'dominant'. The owner was suing him...they don't show you those bits on the Dog Whisperer!!!

Also, I couldn't believe how disrespected he is amongst dog trainers in the US. One of them was asked to review the first ever series of Dog Whisperer before it was aired on the National Geographic channel. This trainer advised NG not to air the series, and that it would put back dog training 20 years.

oh wow! i bet they dont show half of what goes on!

i flicked it on yesterday and i used to really enjoy watching it, but his always going on about the 'brain going forward' and i think is that even a real term?! it sounds made up!

im really not sure about his now espcailly now i have a dog, i loved it when i didnt have one! i wonder why my views have changed?

Why do you insist on arguing with me and lecturing me ?

I have said in each response to you that I dont condone what he does, so why the constant barage of proof and lecturing ?

Regarding the dominance 'theory' you have your opinion, I have mine, and I trust mine as I live with a dominant breed and live with them appropriately.

Enough said.