Yup - I understand what you are saying. We recently had to pay out £1,000 in vet fees because Tai had swallowed a plastic tray containing fat for the birds. We are still paying off the OD plus vast amounts of interest

I wasn't the one saying I had perfect recall after one zap or training session. Training is an on going thing we start almost day one by the time we put a lead on for first walk we have them used to a harness and walking around the flat with a lead attached, we do sit stay and paw giving every evening even at 12 Mollie still does this as she loves the game. We use gentle methods with treats and toys.

I am not the one with the problem dog here BTW mine are not having to wear an electronic device and I am not afraid they could go after another dog or person. So I think my training methods may be working fine for my two.

You keep saying that the collar was to get him to recall and now it is aggression especially with black dogs. Please make you mind up what you are trying to do with the collar.


This is a public forum, when you post you are leaving yourself open to get other opinions so don't get mad at us because YOU posted something that others didn't like and have told you.

Another show of lack of understanding of how a dog's mind works and how they learn, aggressive methods leads to more aggression, it is the same with us humans, if someone is aggressive to us we are often aggressive back. Caning has been banned from schools because it caused more problems than it solved, smacking a child is now condemned because it doesn't sort the problem but can cause more problems and so on.

What a load of rubbish, of course dogs can be traumatised when another dog shows them aggression even when the dog can't get to him.

There is nothing special in that, many dogs do it, I have had several but by learning to understand my dog, taking the trouble to work out why they are like that and then putting into practice both training and management I have turned them round. These dogs were every bit as bad as his red zone dogs, in fact Grace was a lot worse than any dog I have seen him deal with.

Another point to CM, he winds the dogs up before the filming to make them be a lot worse than they are and according to some friends in the USA approximately 90% of the dogs he deals with have to be pts because their aggression becomes worse.

You have been listening to him, you believe everything he says so he will be nice, that is normal human behaviour but disagree with him and you will find a very nasty man.

Yup and mine are working for me.

And I did have perfect recall after just one zap - you have not answered my point about how many treats you would need to give to achieve the same thing.

EXACTLY!! That is just what I said!! I do not want a dog to be psychologically traumatised because Ben has shown intense aggression towards him - that is EXACTLY what I meant - jeez, I am beginning to get very annoyed, but am trying not to!!

You keep contradicting yourself so we are trying to work out just why.

So now we are back to the recall, with positive training you never reach the end in training methods, there is always something else to try so saying you tried everything isn't true, you didn't know anything else to try which is why you went for the collar. Yes you tried behaviourists/trainers but obviously they were not up to the job. There is always something if you look hard enough.

So it is you and your husband who are against keeping Ben on a lead, you have never tried it.

Then why get a dog with needs you couldn't meet? There are always other ways, you said yourself that your dogs will go with a bike quite happily so why not exercise with a bike, it might mean taking the dogs out one at a time but I take my 4 dogs out in 3 lots every day because their needs are different.

64 isn't old, I am 71 and have an auntie who is 104.

So according to you we need to put a shock collar on our dogs so they can be beautiful, happy, healthy, fit, active bundles of joy, I must tell Bonnie that, at 9 years old she is still like a puppy, full of energy and keeps up with a 4 year old Staffy.

None of my dogs are fat, in fact Cyril is on the lean side, he would look better with a little bit more flesh on him but that won't happen.


I am not trying to persuade you but am hoping to help others who may think about trying one of these collars make their minds up to use positive training.

So now you are resorting to insulting some of the members, that says a lot.

No - YOU are resorting to insults!! You know NOTHING about me, and yet you have jumped to the conclusion that we "got" Ben as if we chose him, or bought him. We most certainly did neither. We were FORCED to take him on because as son of our old wolf cross Hal, we felt morally obliged to try and turn him around and give him a good home if at all possible. We most certainly did not want to give him a home, we already had Tai and he was quite enough for us.

But had we not rescued Ben, he would have to have been put down. His owner was in hospital for several weeks having had to have a splenectomy. His boss was looking after Ben, but Ben kept trying to kill his JRTs who kept provoking him, and he said that he would have to destroy the dog unless we took him on whilst our friend was in hospital. This we did, but it was several months before he was fit enough to take Ben back. By which time, Ben and Tai had bonded and our friend decided he didn't want to split them up and asked us to keep him. So we did.

You really must not assume scenarios. Believe me, only idiots like us would have even been prepared to give Ben a chance. He was a true red zoner.

I can't Ben doesn't understand English only dog language so no point in trying to tell him.

Why does it matter the treats are benign and doing no harm.

Mollie got sit stay etc really fast she loved toys and food so would do anything for them, Betty watched Mollie and pretty much got what we wanted her to do straight away.

Recall for Mollie was quite fast too she likes to know where we are so always came back when called only her dementia has stopped that and it's sad to see her panic when she can't find us so she stays on a lead now. Betty has about zero recall because we haven't worked on it with her, she is too small to allow to run free I would worry bigger dogs could hurt her even the coots could do her harm at the lake so no off lead for her.

I am sure she would get it quite fast if we trained her though as she is very bright and even on lead watches for us every few yards.

I can't Ben doesn't understand English only dog language so no point in trying to tell him.

I may be wrong but I have a vague recollection of Lou Castle saying that, dogs run back to their owner for safety and is why he used the collar for recall.