It's a good point nickyboy. Perhaps you should at least have to pass some sort of test in which you can demonstrate that you know how to use one properly - and possibly have to gain a licence?

I have retrained a dog who attacked bike wheels and joggers. It wasn`t particularly difficult but it did take more than two training sessions. So the answer to your question is - yes there are alternatives. Not quick-fixes perhaps, but the methods used before this vile invention was manufactured.

A licence to inflict pain - an interesting proposition

Having whistled trained a pretty decent recall in a number of dogs now, I have to agree with Claireand Daisy on this one. The whistle is used with rewards and that's what the dog asociates it with. An 'e' collar uses a shock, no matter how the language is altered to make it sound more accpetable, it uses a shock and it makes the dog stop because it hurts the dog. It cannot be compared to whistle training which is reward based, as it is an aversive. Totally different training method and as Claire has already said in a previous post, it hurts...it wouldn't work if it didn't.

If a dog's behaviour is putting his own life in danger, I think positive methods may not have the urgency required to correct the unwanted behaviour quickly enough.

ClaireandDaisy how would YOU have handled the cattle dog that Nickyboy mentioned?

I agree it is an aversive rather than a positive method. However, it's possible to be shocked without being hurt.

I think if there are other ways they should definately be used, I wasnt condoning them nor comdemning - if whistles worked from distance over the droning sounds from a combine harvester then yeah of course they should be used - i can only imagine that it other methods had failed by then...

But it was you that compared it to a whistle...

I'm not sure I see your logic.
You put a shock collar around a dog's neck and press the button...how does it not hurt (and yes I've felt it before the thread goes that way...)

If it hurt you, it must have been on too high a setting for your neck.

Perhaps I like pain...

it wasn't on my neck or on a high setting. I have a high pain threshold, just for the record...

Sorry Ramble, I thought the suggestion of using a whistle was meant as in sound aversion, as with a rattle bottle and not as it is used for recall etc. with positive reinforcement.