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View Poll Results: What do you think of the Grand National?
I think it should stay but changes need to be made 70 56.45%
I think it should stay with no changes 8 6.45%
I bet on it 16 12.90%
I don't bet on it 29 23.39%
I don't care one way or the other. 1 0.81%
I think it should be abolished 43 34.68%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Pidge
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12-04-2011, 06:29 PM
'Some' dogs are bred to be service (guide) dogs. During their time as guide dogs they live very happy, fulfilled lives providing aid and support to their humans, where their welfare is paramount to both supplier (organisation) and user. In most cases, once a dog is retired (again, done for the welfare of the animal) they stay on in that home as pets. On rare occasions this is not possible so, considering the welfare of both dogs they are then responsibly re-homed thorough various channels.

Race horses are bred for people to make them money. Quite often their lives involve a quick, fast-paced race that can end up with them dying a horrible painful way all for the enjoyment of humans and for money.

I don't think the two will ever be comparable.
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morganstar
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12-04-2011, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I don't think it's misguided at all.

Humans are social creatures, and the companionship of a pet should not be underestimated, especially for those with disabilities,
Azz I think your missing the point of guide dogs / service dogs to some extent.
They're not there for companion ship there bred and trained to make the owners life easy by allowing them to accomplish everyday tasks that the majority of us take for granted (Sorry Tazer if that sounds condescending nor sure how else to phrase it).
The dogs are there to do a job or a variety of jobs and not as a pet. In fact years ago when my grandad asked for a guide dog he was advised not to get too attached (this could have changed now of course its well over 40 years ago). In fact part of the assesment for suitablity used to be your ability to remain dispationate.
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Pidge
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12-04-2011, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by morganstar View Post
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I don't think it's misguided at all.

Humans are social creatures, and the companionship of a pet should not be underestimated, especially for those with disabilities,
Azz I think your missing the point of guide dogs / service dogs to some extent.
They're not there for companion ship there bred and trained to make the owners life easy by allowing them to accomplish everyday tasks that the majority of us take for granted (Sorry Tazer if that sounds condescending nor sure how else to phrase it).
The dogs are there to do a job or a variety of jobs and not as a pet. In fact years ago when my grandad asked for a guide dog he was advised not to get too attached (this could have changed now of course its well over 40 years ago). In fact part of the assesment for suitablity used to be your ability to remain dispationate.
I disagree. Many organisations recognise the bond between humans and animals and see guide dogs as a lot more than just a helping hand. There are lots of health and social benefits that guide dogs bring to humans and the majority of users see their assistance dogs as pets. Look at Allan and Endal for example.

With reference to your granddad there are now organisations who work to help users through the loss of their assistance dogs especially as the bond is so strong.
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Pidge
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12-04-2011, 06:40 PM
Hang on? I quoted Morganstar then, not Azz.
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morganstar
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12-04-2011, 06:48 PM
As I said I was going back over 40 years (no point quoting you god knows who it will bring up ). The main point is that service dogs are not there as a companion though but to do a specific job.
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Azz
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12-04-2011, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by morganstar View Post
Azz I think your missing the point of guide dogs / service dogs to some extent.
They're not there for companion ship there bred and trained to make the owners life easy by allowing them to accomplish everyday tasks that the majority of us take for granted (Sorry Tazer if that sounds condescending nor sure how else to phrase it).
The dogs are there to do a job or a variety of jobs and not as a pet. In fact years ago when my grandad asked for a guide dog he was advised not to get too attached (this could have changed now of course its well over 40 years ago). In fact part of the assesment for suitablity used to be your ability to remain dispationate.
I know that's not their main purpose but I also recognise the benefit of the companionship
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Azz
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12-04-2011, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
Hang on? I quoted Morganstar then, not Azz.
She had a broken quote tag in her post - fixed now.
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Ramble
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12-04-2011, 07:05 PM
Assistance dogs are bred in their thousands to help people, that is their purpose, to guide or assist. Many have happy lives, many don't. Many live long,healthy lives, many don't. Many owners form a deep and sincere bond with their assistance dog, many don't. There is no generalising.

Some of the charities are now huge. Make of that what you will. One of them referred to a working partnership as a' product' on prime time tv. Make of that what you will.

Life in the assistance dog world, in my opinion, is not all rosey.

Pidge I am still waiting for the evidence that backs up your earlier statement that suggested behavioural problems in assistance dogs are largely down to breeding.
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Pidge
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12-04-2011, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Assistance dogs are bred in their thousands to help people, that is their purpose, to guide or assist. Many have happy lives, many don't. Many live long,healthy lives, many don't. Many owners form a deep and sincere bond with their assistance dog, many don't. There is no generalising.

Some of the charities are now huge. Make of that what you will. One of them referred to a working partnership as a' product' on prime time tv. Make of that what you will.

Life in the assistance dog world, in my opinion, is not all rosey.

Pidge I am still waiting for the evidence that backs up your earlier statement thay suggested behavioural problemsmin assistance dogs are largely down to breeding.
But that's just your opinion of course. That doesn't mean to say they are all bad, 100% of the time

Re the final sentence, I ignored that as it's not what I meant and I couldn't be bothered going into it with you. What I mean is that behaviour problems in assistance dogs that are rejected is likely to be down to breeding (in terms of just one of those things, not necc' poor breeding).
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Borderdawn
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12-04-2011, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
But that's just your opinion of course. That doesn't mean to say they are all bad, 100% of the time

Re the final sentence, I ignored that as it's not what I meant and I couldn't be bothered going into it with you. What I mean is that behaviour problems in assistance dogs that are rejected is likely to be down to breeding (in terms of just one of those things, not necc' poor breeding).
Thats about the best and most truthful thing you have said throughout! Dont tarr everyone with the same brush!
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