Means testing benefits for the over 75's was being discussed on newsnight last night. Joan Bakewell who used to be the spokesperson for older people under Labour was advocating means testing. She tried to give back her winter fuel allowance, as did Alan Sugar but there appears to be no way of declining or returning it, so they give it to charity. Universal benefits are a waste of money and should only be available to those below a certain level of income and only those resident in the uk. Imo.

absolutely

how on earth benefits for the rich ever got considered as socialism is beyond me.

I heard that people who are ex-pats living in Spain still get the winter heating allowance which seems a bit of a farce if it is true!

you may have meant rich people but 'means tested' in benefits terms usually means along the lines of have you got over £3000 savings which prudent people who have saved for their retirement and are living off often have. 'means tested' generally conjures up images of income support level incomes. That is often a far cry from 'rich people' easpecially if you are talking about retired or terminally ill people like my father who often need the heating on full blast etc. as his immune system is weakened due to chemotherapy

If you maybe had said those benefits removed from higher rate taxpayers or something along those lines that might be different (although you would assume that 'rich people' over retirement age probably would not be working enough hours to put them into the higher tax bracket really. You get the gist though)

I think you'll find that is now £21K, at least it has been for the past 3 years since I was dealing with my mum's affairs? You'd better check it out, as you could well be missing out for your parents

i thought the whole gist and thrust of my posts stating why do we need to give benefits to rich people made that clear.
i never said anything about struggling or terminally ill pensioners struggling on their last savings or suchlike.

also, how else will you know how rich they are if you dont means test them?

so, question remains, why do we need to pay benefits to rich people, or winter fuel allowance to pensioners living in spain?
when, like you say, their are poor or sick people that need them more.

This is what I was meaning by 'means tested' against savings limits

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf...atescapitalmtb

so savings amounts over £6000 (under pension age but getting fuel allowance due to terminal illness) / £10000 (over pension age) and up to £16000 with the lower meaning that benefits start to be cut and the upper meaning you get none at all.

Apologies I am out of date as my parents sort out their own money affairs as they are both totally compus mentus

Bearing in mind that something like a new central heating boiler being needed for example, can easily set you back well into the thousands, it's easy to see why it would be prudent to have a few quid saved for your retirement. I wouldn't call £6000 or £10000 savings massively rich really

Stairlift example here http://www.stannahstairlifts.co.uk/e....html?vmcchk=1

New price from £2761 inc. VAT on that one. not sure if that includes fitting...

Maybe you need a motorised scooter....
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...iiwmm&istBid=t
thats almost another couple of grand

and then you need a hand standing up maybe? £800 quid or so
http://www.highseatchairs.co.uk/prod...ic-riser-chair

It's not unreasonable to think you might need all of these things to help you in your retirement, yet add them all up and if you had saved for them and the odd problem cropping up like your roof leaking, heating problems etc. Not long till you are into the means tested band

what you said is this:

I don't see anything in that says that you are only targeting the rich? Maybe I'm missing it but...

Also can I ask whether you have ever sat by the hospital bed of a terminally ill person on chemotherapy trying to persuade them that it is worth filling out the reams of paperwork needed to claim benefits. Some people do not actually like their personal finances rooted through and would refuse to claim even though they were in financial hardship just for the principle. Some people don't actually feel right claiming benefit, they feel dirtied, that it takes their self respect away.

Having an opt out for the likes of the 'rich' people you mentioned maybe but to make them jump through hoops to get things like a TV licence and winter fuel allowance etc for free in the first place...sorry I don't think thats fair, especially at an age where quite often their health IS starting to fail them

You really need to go onto Age Concern and carer's liason officers websites to get the real story, they are on YOUR side (and your parents!). You might well be surprised at how much your parents could be entitled to if their savings are as low as you said, there's a heap of benefits out there unclaimed, yours could be one of them! Well worth taking a look around, it paid off for us because attendance allowance is something everybody can claim, even if they're millionnaires!

We don't need to pay any benefits to rich people, afterall, the reason they were put in place, was for the POOREST in society, so how the heck it managed to grow to include all the rest I don't have a clue and it shouldn't be so imo!

Ok perhaps I should have clarified a bit more, I did say means tested but also said above a certain income level universal benefits should not apply, and instead of filling out copious amounts of forms giving the ins and outs of a ducks ar*e, it should simply be based on income. If any of us are fortunate enough to be higher rate tax payers in retirement then we shouldn't expect those working and on a lesser income to be supporting us. Simples.