I am still a bit confused about the whole organic/free range debate.

I found this on the DEFRA website.

"Livestock
Livestock form an integral part of the majority of organic farms, although there are some successful stockless systems. Organic livestock enterprises are land based and are generally supported from the farm's own resources as
far as possible.

Organic standards do not allow intensively housed stock or systems where a large amount of total feed has to be bought in. Most existing dairy, beef and sheep enterprises can be converted to an organic system, given appropriate changes to feeding, housing and health management. Pigs and poultry must be managed extensively under an organic system, with extensive outdoor access. Organic standards require that the feed ration is 80 per cent organic for non-ruminants, and 90 per cent organic for ruminants. For
ruminants at least 60 per cent of dry matter must be from fresh or conserved forage."

So this sounds to me as though poultry and pigs have to have extensive outdoor access but what about cattle and sheep? It sounds as though they can't be "intensively
housed" but not that they have to have access to the outside? Maybe this is where grain fed beef comes in?

Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks for starting this debate though Azz, as I am certainly learning about something I already thought I knew a bit about - but clearly don't!

Why do I still eat meat?

Because I love it! I do eat veggie dishes, but not often - and only if there is no meat available.
I have meat at least once per day.

People who say they are veggies, but eat fish confuse me!
Don't have anything against veggies though!
But I choose to eat meat

Why? Is it not OK to say I'm veggie then, even though the only reason I do it is because nobody knows the term pescetarian? (It's not even in the spell check!! ;o)

I know the term
Say it, and educate more people!

Sorry if i've missed it in the thread, but why are you a vegetarian (sorry....Pescetarian )?
Is it because you don't like the taste, or because you don't like the way the animals are killed?

The reason it confuses me, is because most people are veggie because they don't like the way the animals are treated/killed - and I don't understand why they don't extend this feeling to fish!
Are fish not as important to those people as say, cows are?

Does that make any sense at all?

Thanks for starting this debate though Azz, as I am certainly learning about something I already thought I knew a bit about - but clearly don't!

thanks spot, right here is the deal, I will give it a go from monday morning for 7 days, I will do a thread on it letting people know how it goes

I really do recommend that skinny bitch book - I've just finished the men's version and thought it was brilliant from start to finish. I did skip a little bit about where they tell people how to make the transition tho (cos I know all that from detoxing). It is aimed at the American market - but seeing the food industry is world trade nowadays I don't think it matters much, it effects us everywhere.

Shona - don't just dive in, make sure you have recipes to last you the 7 days or you'll just give up. Also you going vegan or just veggie? I've been Vegan now for 3 days (although haven't yet decided it's what I'm going to do).

If anyone else is considering doing it... maybe we can start a sub-section for it

Well I've been a Vegan for 8 days now, and as much as I'd like to continue with it I don't think I will be

I already have a fairly restricted diet and my energy levels have just dipped too much - more my fault as I'm not a great cook to begin with! But I just find cooking vegan takes so much longer to do as well and while it was fun for a week I can quickly see it beginning to get in the way as I have very little free time as it is.

However reading the Skinny B book has certainly reminded me just how poor quality our meat/animal products really are, and so I will be choosing them more wisely in future if I do start eating meat again. I may see if I can find some vegan cookbooks first - to see if I can make foods that taste reasonably ok in shorter time frames!

If I didn't have a restricted diet to begin with it'd probably be considerably easier. Maybe one day eh!

Why? Is it not OK to say I'm veggie then, even though the only reason I do it is because nobody knows the term pescetarian? (It's not even in the spell check!! ;o)

The reason it confuses me, is because most people are veggie because they don't like the way the animals are treated/killed - and I don't understand why they don't extend this feeling to fish!Are fish not as important to those people as say, cows are?

Does that make any sense at all?