And yet Springers and Cockers are done? They have hair on the tails?

The gundog group is split into several sub groups:

Pointers and Setters
Retrievers
HPRs
Spaniels

The reason for this is they all work in a very different way.

Pointers and Setters generally work very large open grouse mooors, they do what it says on the tin and point, they do not retrieve nor do they work in heavy cover.

Retrievers do just that, retrieve from any situation on both land and water, hence the type of coats they have.

Spaniels are used for flushing game and working in heavy cover ie deep vegetation, bracken and branches.

HPRs tend to a bit of everything.

Thus the nature of their work dictates the length of the tail.

No need to dock pointers or setters because they do not go into heavy cover.

Where retrievers are, spaniels are.

So retrievers do not need to be docked either, but spaniels due to working in heavy cover DO.

Because HPRs do the lot, they need to be docked to prevent injury.

It is difficult for those who do not shoot, beat, pick up or compete in Field Trials to appreciate the differences between the sub groups but they were all created to fulfil a specific purpose apart from the continentals which have to be a "jack of all trades" and thus often work where there are no spaniels or retrievers.

HTH

I could show you springers that are docked, shown but not worked - but it is becoming less common. A friend of mine only shows and her springers are docked. She calls them show springers, not working and has always maintained they look better for showing with docked tails. The puppies she has bred were docked and they don't work either. Mind you I noticed that this latest round of pups have not been docked, so time and the regulations have probably caught up with her now

They are docked Lynn. They have the first couple joints removed, this stops tail end injuries, like many Spaniels. They dont "need" a short dock as they have thick coat on them, again like Spaniels, offers more protection.

No they are NOT docked, I know of NO LHW in the UK which have been docked. The previous standard mentioned this, but nobody bothered to do it, certainly not in the last 30 years........ unless you can tell me a breeder who does, and as I know them all, I would be very surprised!

So what if YOU dont know of any, there are two on our local shoot that are docked, docked along with the short coats in the litter! 3yrs old now, the breeder owns 3 out the same litter. You obviously have affiliation with show dogs only, maybe they didnt bother? The ones intending to do the job they were bred for, did.

Oh dear, is jumping to conclusions the only exercise you get?

I cannot see how it is OBVIOUS to you that I have an affiliation with show dogs only, ROFLMAO.

My LHW happens to be the most titled, versatile dog not on only in the breed, or the HPR subgroup or even gundog group but of any breed ever in the UK, and although she has won in the Championship Breed Ring including Crufts, she is more famous for her working ability and has her Working Gundog Certificate.

Her breeding comes from a long line of dogs that are successful in various fields including the Shooting Field where her Sire, grandsire, great grandsire, and great great grandsire (to name just the immediate family) acquitted themselves very well.

As I said in the Blue thread, it is common for people who know little in the breed to have unknowingly LH in the litter which are then docked short like their SH littermates.

Perhaps you would like to let me know the name of this "breeder" who has kept 3 out of the same litter and works them on a shoot as I do not know of any LHW breeder who has three littermates (2 of them long and one short) and that works them on a shoot. And by breeder I mean someone who breeds LHW by design not accident.

As I am sure many of my friends that work their dogs on a shoot would like to know of them.

The dogs bred for the purpose for which they were intended cannot actually fulfil their purpose very often (they were originally bred to track wounded stag and boar) but they do successfully hunt, point and retrieve wounded game birds on many shoots up and down the UK.

NONE of these have been docked either partially or fully except as I said before by error as it is very difficult to distinguish shorts from longs prior to 3 days of age in the nest.

HTH

Please dont be so rude, its hardly like you have been here for ages and people know you is it? Not that it matters!

So what? What would you like me to do, clap? I know people who work longs, why cant you deal with that? My Border would have a working cert if they'd let Borders do it! Im pleased she works, long may that continue!

Again, whats your point? I couldnt care whther you have the only long in the entire world, but you dont, nor do you have the only longs that are worked and the ones I know have had the ends of their tails docked too!

Well thats their problem, shouldnt be breeding IMO.

Ill ask him if he minds me passing on his details if you like, when I next see him, I doubt he'd mind. He has bred them for many years, he has had at least 5 to my knowledge.

Im surprised they dont actually. He does a lot of rough shooting too. He doesnt breed often and to my knowledge has never showed either, he has Lurchers too, works them more than the Wei's, thats where I first knew him from.

Yes Im aware of that, my dogs do the job they were bred for regularly, preserving that is very important to me.

As you said if you are not familiar you may make that mistake, this chap doesnt, he has owned them for many many years.

ROFLMAO, would you like some fish to go with the chips on your shoulders.


Yes we would really like to know as the LH breeders in the UK can be counted on less than 10 fingers in the UK, so we LHW always want to know of any others that are breeding that we do not know about, as they may have suitable stud dogs that could be used in future breeding programmes.

As for being rude, I am afraid if you cannot take what you dish out, then don't dish it out. Making inane comments about someone that you do not know being OBVIOUSLY affiliated to show dogs reveals more about your ignorance than my outlook!

Rudeness again.


We? Are you posting on behalf of others too? The chap I know has only bitches to my knowledge.

As I said, if people choose to hide their identities and not share with people who they are, thats not my problem, its theirs. I have only admiration if you worked your dog, they should do what they were bred for IMO, the more the merrier, will you be at Crufts with her in March?

Did you breed from your dog?