thanks everyone, thats been a huge help, Im a good bit more savy on it now than I was on saturday,,,, I find some of it a bit confusing the rules for obed seem so easy in comparison,

I found this a little confusing at first too. I was in an open show once with the weimaraner, she got beaten by the only other dog in the class so i thought ok ive finnished and went to show the dobermanns. However later the judge came over and said i was calling for you as the dog that beat Bonny had got best of breed. She said i probably would have got reserve best of breed as she liked her but liked the winner better. I also got reserve best puppy in show once like this with one of my pups. I had put him in the car ready to go and was just waiting to see who got best in show when i was called in. It was a frantic rush but they waited and then i had to compete with the winner of the junior class who was also a pup under 12 months. Mine got it, he had come second in puppy to the winner. If there is a junior class and the winner is under 12 months it competes with the winner of the puppy class and the best one gets the best puppy. So because you have won the puppy class it does'nt always mean you will automatically get best puppy. Hope this does not confuse the issue!!

sorry thicko shona allert!! right have I got this right,
you got second in puppy or was it junior,,, but got best puppy,,,,yup ya just threw a spanner in the works again,,, I dont understand,,, thought I had it licked there too, it could be some time before I understand it all

Sorry it will all fall into place eventually just like learning to drive!! Remember they don't always have reserve best puppy or best of breed but it is always best to wait around incase they do. To confuse the issue even more if there is no puppy class and you have a puppy that wins 5th place in junior you get best puppy if the others are all over 12 months. But don't worry about it!!! I have only just got the hang of it recently and i have showed on and off for years.

Even more confusing I was once called back in the ring at an open show with my dog, I thought they had made a mistake as we only got a VHC but apparently he was the only male to get a prise card in the breed so we won best opposite sex & came home with a lovely rosette & a cup to add to our VHC.
As for puppy if you have a best puppy in sex,breed, or show. Any puppy not beaten in a class by another puppy can challenge. I have seen best puppy in sex given to the dog who came 4th in junior.
You can have a best puppy from the puppy classes providing you state this in the catalogue but then it can only be called best puppy not best puppy in sex breed show etc. Confused, oh the joys of being a show secretary.

Well GSD Sue thats a new one to me. But it makes sense when I think about it. If the society have a cup for best oposite sex and there is only one placed out of the breed he wins it. Thats one to remember for the future.
The rules in the schedules never seam to make sense to me either as it reads like law contradicting and repeating. As you come across these rules they start to fall into place bit by bit. If in doubt hang around until the breed class is finished and then when everyone has gone you know you haven't won anything else!!!!
One other rule i only found out a while ago as not all schedules state it. You can only enter any variety classes if you have entered a breed class if there is one for it. If your breed does not have any seperate classes then it's ok. You don't have to be placed though. If you are not placed you can still go ahead and enter the classes you have already paid to enter. I was once placed 1st in Junior when the dog was about 14 months old. He was not eligable for Best Puppy and was beaten by an older dog for best of breed. He then went into junior in any variety working and won and then got best any variety when he beat all the rest of the 1st placed dogs in the other classes in this catogary. The steward told me i could go for best in show. Lucky enough I knew i couldn't as i had been beaten by another dobermann. There can only be one of each breed in the best in show ring and then the same of each in the best puppy. (I think or is there any exception!!!!)

If you listen to the steward when he is calling in for best of breed, they should say "all unbeaten dogs in the ring" NOT all class winners, as someone could get a 1st in one class and then a 2nd in another class, therefore they are a beaten dog even though they are a class winner.
With regards to the puppy award. Any UNBEATEN puppy can challenge for this as long as they have not been beaten by another puppy in any class.
So the puppy class winner may go in.
Then you might have a puppy that came second in junior that can come in, if the dog that came first in junior was over 12 months old.
The junior pup may only come in the ring to challenge for best puppy. It may not come in the ring to challenge for best of breed as it was beaten in the class.

I have to say it does pay to understand the beaten dog rule etc, as you might lose out in the future. At champ shows it shouldn't happen but alot of the time at open shows you might have novice judges and stewards who don't (they should) understand the rules.
I was at a show last week for instance. There were three classes.
Junior, Post grad and open.

The junior winner was also entered in the post grad class but came second in this class, therefore a beaten dog. I was in open and beat the postgrad winner as he has entered in post grad and open.
Therefore I automatically got Best of Breed. The judge and steward said Reserve best of breed wasn't to be awarded. Now I should have minded my own business but I ddn't want to see someone lose out. I told them that the dog that came second to me in open was automatically Reserve Best of Breed as it had come second in open and had won the post grad class. The only dog that beaten it was mine. Therefore it should get RBIB. I was told I was wrong but stood my ground on it (probably not a wise move as the breed judge was the group judge LOL) and eventually they agreed and the dog was pulled in for reserve.

Here's another one for you as well as I've seen too many exhibitors fall foul of this. If you have a puppy and it goes best of breed and then wins the group or comes second in the group then you AUTOMATICALLY are the winner of the puppy group. Amazing how many judges (including those that give CC's) are not aware of this.

thanks megan,, as always very well worded and easy to digest,,, but its still confusing on the whole,,, I guess you need to study the catalogue if in junior and see what age the other dogs are and so on,,, Im not surprised some judges and stewards dont even know the correct placing of dogs,, good on you for sticking your neck out with the dog and the reserve,,, you just wouldnt get that in rotts,,,its all me me me me me,, lol, good on ya,

Yes i agree what a nice thing to do. Good on you for that.