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thandi
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02-04-2007, 10:17 PM
one solution might be for her to borrow a dog (that is entered in a breed class at the same show) that is more 'suitable' for a handling class? There is no rule that says you must handle your own dog, or even the dog you entered with, just alert the steward to the change of dog (as a courtesy).
Beware though, of some handling stakes classes (thinking particularly of YKC here) where it stipulates the dog must be owned by/reside with the handler...read the schedule carefully.

hth
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GSD-Sue
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03-04-2007, 12:06 AM
Now she's getting older borrowing a dog seems a good idea. Also could you get some junior handling at your breed show as this would give a much more level playing field.
Know your problems as i had a young man who handled my GSD for me & went in for JHA classes with triangles etc when in the shepherd ring one only gaits in a circle I used different collars & leads for the 2 things & treated the JHA like an obedience class. found the change of collar etc worked with all mine,
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China
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03-04-2007, 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
My daughter is a very competant JH.She has done well at open shows and shows in breed classes holding her own.
She shows an elkhound in JH...they are a free standing baited breed and if you move..they move.They should be intent on the bait and alert.However JH judges now she is older want her to do things like walk round the dog while the dog stands still so that she doesn't get in between the judge and the dog.Now thats ok with a stacked dog...or a small dog,but there is no way she could do it with an elkhound.The judge yesterday suggested she spends HOURS practicing in the garden... ...THE ONLY THING THIS WOULD ACHIEVE IS TO TURN THE BOYS INTO LIVING STATUES!
I think JH classes should be training grounds for the handlers of tomorrow....why ask them to do something that is never seen in a breed ring? Shouldn't the judge take into account the breed on the end of the lead.To me it should be about getting the best from your dog..looking good and complimenting your dog.Am I just being one of those 'sour faced mothers' we all hate.
PS she still won her JH class yesterday
Hi Archer,
this is done in both Jnr/Snr sections of the Jnr Handling classes here,in Australia! but they always take in different dogs
what about asking someone else who shows if your daughter could take one of their in
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hayleybella
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03-04-2007, 08:08 AM
Personally I think the Judge aught to consider how each breed should be handled rather than every one handle the same you wouldn't put a big dog on a table so why expect all breeds to be stood / stacked the same ? Surley part of good handling is knowing how to handle/move/stand your own breed?
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surannon
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03-04-2007, 08:37 AM
Personally I think the Judge aught to consider how each breed should be handled rather than every one handle the same you wouldn't put a big dog on a table so why expect all breeds to be stood / stacked the same ? Surley part of good handling is knowing how to handle/move/stand your own breed?
Exactly. And this is where the whole 'art' of junior handling falls apart. Just as in Archer's case, the junior is now faced with not being able to take her own dog in the ring because the judge wants all these patterns and waltzing round the dog!

Debs
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Archer
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03-04-2007, 10:15 AM
Originally Posted by GSD-Sue View Post
Now she's getting older borrowing a dog seems a good idea. Also could you get some junior handling at your breed show as this would give a much more level playing field.
Know your problems as i had a young man who handled my GSD for me & went in for JHA classes with triangles etc when in the shepherd ring one only gaits in a circle I used different collars & leads for the 2 things & treated the JHA like an obedience class. found the change of collar etc worked with all mine,
Borrowing a dog is an option I suppose but I don't know anyone outside the breed really.
She competed at the breed club champ show last year and won best Jr handler ..she also was offered a trip to the USA to train out there by one of our breeds biggest USA kennels!
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lovezois
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03-04-2007, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Borrowing a dog is an option I suppose but I don't know anyone outside the breed really.
She competed at the breed club champ show last year and won best Jr handler ..she also was offered a trip to the USA to train out there by one of our breeds biggest USA kennels!

I am sure if you had a word with some of the Show Secretary's they could tell you or if not then find out for you who would be willing to let your daughter handle their dog/s. I sometime let a young lad who is a junior handler handle mine, his parents have paps and Afghans and he likes the challenge of handing a different breed. If you were nearer I would have let your daghter handle one of mine in the JH classes.
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megan57collies
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03-04-2007, 11:23 AM
Interesting topic.
In the past year I have been doing the Adult handling classes and a couple of weeks ago attended the final. There were all sorts of breeds being handled. I did wander if the breed should be taken into account ie, size etc regards pattern work.
I chatted to the judge afterwards and was told that although the handler is being judged not the breed, the breed handled should be considered ie, the way it should be moved, for example I would not walk my border collie round but rather gait him out at a good pace.
Also I was told that with presentation the judge would for instance take into consideration if the dog was playing up a little or being a bit excited. Now my boy for instance decided to do his rendition of Riverdance in the line and did move when I walked round him, but I was not marked down for it.
I have to say as well, with my breed being in general a freestood breed, I went along to the final, and I have never trained my dog to stand when I walked round him. I just told him to stand and wait, and walked round him and he obeyed. I do not bait or treat him in the ring with food anyway. There are a lot breeds that are baited yet the handlers seem to be able to do the exercises required. This does not change how the dogs react back in the breed ring.
I do remember way back in obedience training classes. That you did a stand stay and proceeded to walk round the dog. This is quite similar. And I do remember that there were a couple with elkhunds there who didn't seem to have a problem doing this exercise.
I have watched quite a bit of the Junior handlling and am surprised as I have seen the judge constantly move around so the exhibitors have to change over the dogs size so surely your daughter is already doing this anyhow if she is doing so well.
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Deccy
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03-04-2007, 12:49 PM
In Ireland in Junior Handling competitions it is not unusual to have the four handlers in the "cut" swop dogs around and then see how well they manage! A great idea IMO, as it really does show who can handle, and who has been trained in one breed or dog.
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Archer
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03-04-2007, 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by megan57collies View Post
Interesting topic.
In the past year I have been doing the Adult handling classes and a couple of weeks ago attended the final. There were all sorts of breeds being handled. I did wander if the breed should be taken into account ie, size etc regards pattern work.
I chatted to the judge afterwards and was told that although the handler is being judged not the breed, the breed handled should be considered ie, the way it should be moved, for example I would not walk my border collie round but rather gait him out at a good pace.
Also I was told that with presentation the judge would for instance take into consideration if the dog was playing up a little or being a bit excited. Now my boy for instance decided to do his rendition of Riverdance in the line and did move when I walked round him, but I was not marked down for it.
I have to say as well, with my breed being in general a freestood breed, I went along to the final, and I have never trained my dog to stand when I walked round him. I just told him to stand and wait, and walked round him and he obeyed. I do not bait or treat him in the ring with food anyway. There are a lot breeds that are baited yet the handlers seem to be able to do the exercises required. This does not change how the dogs react back in the breed ring.
I do remember way back in obedience training classes. That you did a stand stay and proceeded to walk round the dog. This is quite similar. And I do remember that there were a couple with elkhunds there who didn't seem to have a problem doing this exercise.
I have watched quite a bit of the Junior handlling and am surprised as I have seen the judge constantly move around so the exhibitors have to change over the dogs size so surely your daughter is already doing this anyhow if she is doing so well.
Elkhounds arre a freestood, baited breed...if you move the bait they follow.We NEVER touch any part of the dog whilst showing(unless asked to show teeth) and they are xpected to show 'a bit of life' if you know what I mean...so no they would never stand still if told to whilst anyone walked round them.My daughter is more than capable of adapting to show another breed but as I said we do not know anyone who shows another hound breed that could lend her one.When doing JH she moves to avoid standing between the dog and judge but we never move away from the front of the dog hence if that means momentarily moving infront of the judge then so be it.Now I know that is a no no in JH but this is my point...to win at JH you either buy a dog that is more suitable for JH(or borrow) or you retrain your dog to do JH which may well affect his chances in the breed ring or you lose...not a good choice IMO.
She has done well in the bred ring showing the BPIB at crufts this year for a friend and placing well at champ shows(my dogs are no world beaters ).We are very careful in the breed not to overtrain since with elkies this tends to take an edge off them and elkie judges don't like dogs like motionless statues so the judges comment of spending hours practicing is simply a no go.
We will be adding another show dog of another breed later in the year so we may wait until he is in the ring and she can do JH from there.
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