Don't know if this is a coincidence but yesterday at the Vets Maya had her booster shots & at 4 this morning had another seizure.

This was a less dramatic one but of longer duration with a longer recovery time, she was sore & cranky from the "normal"injection site reaction prior to the seizure and now 4 hours later is just laying there zoned out & sleeping, which isn't her normal routine.

This info from jess is new to me, is there a theory that links vaccination/immunity problems to seizures in dogs?

I did Christine - thanks very much. I am looking through them all.

I have heard of the link between vaccinations and disorders such as epilepsy - Loki's seizures started within a couple of months of his booster. Although I can't say for definite whether they are linked, I also can't say they weren't. I wish I'd never had the boosters and this is why I've been trying to look at other ways.

Agh no S/Boss

No animal should be vaxed if they are ill, all the vax data inserts state this but vets still do it. Its not a theory either. If you tell me the make of the vax she had I`ll look it up & put it up for you to read yourself. Also just about all the vax state that yearly boosters for parvo, distemper & adno are only needed every 3yrs now. I`ve been banging on about this for a number of yrs now & theres an active thread with a lot of links in it, thats going on right now in this health section.

Have a look & take your pick from any of the links I`ve put up & you`ll see it is most definately NOT a theory.

If you have a look at Luckt Stars post theres a few links in her thread cos her dog is having the same trouble & you`ll find some links that might help

OMG I just re-read this and realise what you've said. They vaccinated a dog that's ill??? I spoke to the Canine Epilepsy Support Charity today and they told me that this is a big no no and that we should look at other ways. Also no general anaesthetics if possible for an epileptic dog. I'm really sorry, how is your dog now?

Strictly speaking no, she's not ill, she has idiopathic epilepsy. Is vaccination to be avoided if this condition is present?
No other condition or illness was diagnosed unless the vaccinations themselves are to blame which MAY be the case, but am I to suspend all vaccinations to see if her epilepsy goes away?



Maya's still not feeling very chipper the injection site is still very sore, & she is running a fever,I think

Hi S/Boss, yes vax are to be avoided with epilepsy, as I already said, they aren`t needed for the 3 major diseases any more than 3 yrs anyway.

As to see if the epilepsy goes away, I don`t believe it ever does. Once seizures have started you never know when the next one will occur & its a matter of controlling them. Unless its a one off due to other illness, high temp or something, but idiopathic type means no known cause & you`ll not know when or if the next one will occur. But she`ll be epileptic for life, I`m sorry

Sorry also she`s still not feeling well, personally I`d get a referral to a homeopathic vet asap, they can do a lot for for vaccinosis, but if you don`t I`d get her back to your vet asap especially as she`s running a temp, have you taken her temp, what is it?

Also how old is she & did you look up what vax she had?

Hello again.

Just to clear things up, the word "ill" covers a huge area. When i talk about immune-compromised, I mean a problem, illness or disease that is reeking havoc on the dog's in question immune system. Eplipsy of ANY type makes the dog immune-compromised (meaning DO NOT vaccinate) – which it clearly states in the MERCK vetenary manual. If you look very very deep into it you will find that people who have 'ordinary' problems like excema (me) shouldn't be vaccinted either. But they seem to wash over that fact don't they. The reason is that you have a much higher chance of problems from the vaccine, as the immune system is finite – that is, it doesn't have an infinite amount of 'energy' to deal with the a severe shock to the system as the intimate vaccine (the injection of deadly disease into the system without warning), when it is already dealing with an exisiting problem/illness/disease.

Heres something you didn't know. Many greyhounds suffer problems as they are vaccinated directly after a race. As well as the vaccine being kept in a warm environment (rendering them lethal – they should be kept cool), they dogs have just run a race so their bodys are under 'stress' (not at their optimum). Again it is states by the manufacturers that in order to vaccinate any animal or human they should NOT be ill (immune-compromised) or under stress. You should not for example do agility with your dog and then take him to the vet for boostering/vaccination. How many vets have asked you when you go in "has your dog shown any signs of being under the weather" or "has your dog had any severe excerise today"
or – heres my favourite
"are you feeding your dog a suitable diet, has he got all the nutrition he needs to be at his most fit and healhy – is he at the APPROPRIATE weight for his build!!!!"

The answer is no, no, no, everytime. Vaccination is, by desgin, questionable – therefore to keep it low key and part of the 'norm', it is required that we don't talk about it or ask questions, so even the vets forgot overtime that it can (and does) cause severe reactions in animals and humans. One of the biggest challenges we face, is that so many reactions are not reported. If the dog is vaccinated today and then has a fit, it is (generally) recognised and reported. However if it happens tomorrow, it is not associated with the vaccine. How about something that happens a few months later: eplipsy/diabetes/inflamation of joints or other auto-immune problems.
Fact: we don't know the actual numbers of cases, as many many of them are not reported as vaccine related.

Hi,
I am new here but just wanted to put my tuppeneth in.. Minstrel my nine year old lab has epilepsy, she had what I now know to be a massive seizure the day after she was vaccinated at eight weeks old. since then she has NEVER been vaccinated, never had a days illness actually (apart from the epilepsy of course) you really have to stand your ground with some vets to not vaccinate tho. Minstrel is on 'mysoline' and has been for the past three years without a hitch, when she first started the drug I panicked a bit coz she started to pace about in circles and drink constantly, by this I mean she wouldnt leave the water bowl. I spoke with the vet that medicated her and was advised to increase the dose as her brain wanted to seize but the meds were only just stopping it.. since then no problems. she had one grand mal exactly one year later to the very day she first started the meds, I increased the meds and touch wood, she has been seizure free ever since. She has a wonderful zest for life. She started to bump into things last year tho, we thought it was due to the epilepsy damaging her brain over the years before we medicated her.. turns out she has GPRA and HC.. but she's still a happy go lucky girl.
Mica

As regards mysoline, this is what I was told by a friend who has just retired after 30+ years as a vet. Mysoline, after ingestion, is transformed into phenobarbitone. During this process, damage CAN be caused to the liver, kidneys etc. (N.B. "can", NOT "will", don't panic!) . This is in addition to the potential damage which the phenobarb itself could cause, thus putting the dog at extra risk. She summed up by saying that "there is no place for mysoline on a modern vet's shelves".

It would make sense when viewed this way: the effective ingredient is Phenobarbitone, and therefore it will be of more immediate use if it is administered as straight phenobarb rather than as something which has to be processed by the body first.

My Snorri-dog's brother Jacob was on mysoline initially. It may be worth noting that the vet who prescribed it first has also retired.

Next time you need to renew the prescription, ask for an information update! Far be it for me to knock mysoline, I'm just reporting what I've been told by someone whose opinion I trust - my retired vet friend has been of immense help to me in treating Snorri-dog successfully, and in suggesting things for me to ask my own vet about. Incidentally, she retired as the result of a car accident, not age!

As to epilepsy "stopping", I believe that, in a minuscule number of cases, it can, and my own vet concurs. Snorri-dog's brother Mickey appears to have "grown out of it". However, it is best looked at as something to be hoped for, but NOT expected: epilepsy is normally a "for life" affliction, as has been said earlier in this thread. My Snorri has been clear for over 4 years now, and it's tempting to think he's "cured", but I have no doubt that it's his medication which is holding it at bay (we tried weaning him off the Pb, gradually, but he had an attack within a week of the Pb being ceased, so we started it again; no more fits).

In my Snorri-dog's case, the cause is, apparently, hereditary - he has two epileptic brothers that I know of who suffer from it. As the brothers all have different dads, it would appear that mum was the carrier. She is no longer with us, but as far as I know, she never showed the affliction herself. My Kali has the same mum, but he has never shown any sign of it, either, thankfully.

Any change from mysoline to straight phenobarb ought to be incident-free. Don't be afraid to ask your vet if he/she is SURE about the mysoline: after all, you're just keeping him/her on his/her toes!

Snorri

Hi, having no experience of it I cannot help, apart from to say sorry to hear about this and I do hope you manage to get it stablized soon.

Big hugs xx