i`ve used a whistle to recall Freya (northern inuit) from 8 weeks old... it works brilliantly. As long as your dog is food orientated... (what spaniel isn`t.. LOL) he would learn fast. Freya comes back like a rocket.. when she knows there`s a bit of grub in it.

Ooh, Im looking forward to Tiggers rebellion phase! That should be fun. So does that mean he will test everything he does comply with already, just like the human teens Ive already got here? Im going to be outnumbered!

I have already learnt quite a bit from this thread. I now know that its pointless (and possibly detrimental) to shout a command more than once. So now I will set him up to succeed. I think I will need to bake some liver! It seems like Im resigning myself to the fact that playing will override my wishes though, although I suppose proper 100% compliance will take a long time.

I am going to view an obedience class this wknd. (Such a shortage of good classes!) Hopefully this will go some way to showing Tigger through example, good dog etiquette and behaviour. Unfortunately gaz I dont know anyone with well trained dogs. Im sure my mum-in-law wouldnt be offended if I said that her springer Gyp is not trained, he is getting better slowly but this means that Tigger has noone to 'follow' as it were. It makes me wonder though what Tigger would do faced with a line of well behaved dogs. He would probably put one of his funny faces on and sulk!

My OH took Tigger up Moel Famou (sp? Welsh hill. LOL) yesterday and introduced 'Come' as a new command each time Tigger was coming back. He said it seemed to go well and Tigs was given a treat every few returns. (We were working on the principles of gambling with the treats, you know variable-ratio reinforcement, as I didnt want Tigger to expect a treat every time as that couldnt really be kept up long term. Do you all think its best to reward each and every time instead? If so, do you experience problems when the behaviour is conditioned 'Recall means I get treat' and you stop the treats, or do you continue to treat for all recalls whilst out and about?)

Anyway, he had fun and as there was no-one else about, the recall was successful.

perrypooh,
It would have been difficult to get Tigger onto his lead as he had seen a rather large looking young dog (Vizla?) and leapt a ditch (!) to go play. I could have walked around the ditch but that would have meant losing sight of Tigger and so I decided to stay put so he would know where to find me. It sounds similar to what I do with Tigger now, when I see a danger I call him (and sometimes he comes!) and pop him back onto the lead. I also have been calling him back just to treat/stroke him so he doesnt get wise to the lead back on cue.

However, in the past if he has ignored me I and he has been on the flat, open area, I have walked in the opposite direction (as if Im fed up with him-which I am sometimes. ) and he comes bounding after me indignantly. So youll all know if you come across me on a walk--Ill be the loon who walks twenty steps one way around the field, then retraces my steps the other way!

I agree with a lot of what's been said. I especially agree with rip that you shouldn't intorduce the whistle until the recall is established as otherwise it's like shouting tigger and you could end up with that being ignored as well.

Another way of doing things is to make you exciting and unpredictable. Enlist your own teenagers and take them all out for a game of hide and seek..Tigger will be so busy running around finding you all that he won't notice other dogs. ASnother way is to not have a sat route. Don't let him think he knows where you are going...if he runs ahead and goes to the side and is engrossed, turn round, don't call him and walk the other way, when he returns to your side, or near you (which he will, dogs are pack animals after all) welcome him with a happy voice and tickles if needs be. Do that a few times and he'll be aware of you more...just incase you try to escape. Me and OH were doing all of that with Saturn yesterday and he stayed very close in the end (but was still enjoying all the smells etc out and about and off lead...momentous indeed!!!!) It's also useful to teach a firm 'leave it' command as if he spots another dog and watches, you can tell him 'leave it' before he runs off to it..then run in the opposite direction...you look foolish if he still ignores (as Saturn has done) but there's a thrill and lots of praise for the dog if he actually listens!!!! Hope this helps!!!
Axxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks Ailsa

Yes I will try that running off the other way trick-hope he doesnt ignore me. How ridiculous would I look.

I think it may well be a long time until he doesnt think he has an automatic right to go play with anything on four legs he sees.

I also like the idea of Hide n Seek. I will just have to watch out for the cow pats.

Just a quick question, is it ok to have Leave it to mean leave anything? Only when he starts eating cow poo I usually tell him to leave it etc so is it ok to then use that to mean essentially 'Dont go after that dog' ?

Our leave it command is fairly multifunctional!!!!
Today it's windy here and i've done some lead work with mad mutt.
Leave it ranged from...teenagers let out of school for lunch. last nights leftover curry thrown on the street, toast, a ribena carton, a man with hedge clippers, the wire from said hedge clippers, an old lady at a bus stop, many,many, many leaves blowing in the wind, a barking dog, a few sticks........ He knows exactly what it means but opted to ignore it a mere 30% of the time so an improvement there!!! Just takes time and patience and lots of reinforcement with the treat in the palm of your hand, leave it game!!!!!!!!
So...yep it's okay for leave it to mean anything you want Tigger to leave, just make sure Tigger understands what you mean before making it a multifunctional command!!!!
Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ailsa xxxxx(Need to go lie down after that walk!!!!!!! )

A whistle works for me, like magic, but that's no guarantee that it will solve everyone's problems or that it is the only answer. My dog was already very good on recall except when there was a major distraction. The whistle was the answer as it proved to be much more compelling and effective at greater distance. When she hears it she knows I mean real business, and so far it has never failed. Its probably my attitude that she detects.
Training is easy :- begin with 2 very quick sharp blasts followed immediately by your usual verbal command. The whistle gets the dog's attention and the verbal tells it what to do. Reward of course. Very soon the dog will respond to whistle alone. From then on you can use either.

Thanks again Ailsa
Yeah I think you deserve a lie down after all of those distractions! Tigger loves chip wrappers too, and ants, crane flys, snails, stones, leaves-you dont need to be particularly interesting to get my pups attention.

PaulG,
Thanks for the info about the whistle. We went back up Moel Famou today and practised the 'Come' command and he was much better! It seems to work by letting him have the freedom of off lead fun on the understanding that he come back when requested. Mind you, we didnt meet any other dogs, but its a start. I will be looking to buy a whistle soon and see how that goes. I had a look on the Acme website (where you can hear the whistle tones) and he really paid attention to one of them (I forget which one right now) and pricked his ears up even though he was laid down attempting to sleep through my typing and sneezing! :smt002

ooh I forgot to add the most important bit of advice I was ever given and that was once you give a command,always follow it through no matter how long it takes or how hopeless it seems you can't afford to let it slide pups cotton on to that far too quickly!lol

Hi all

Was going to start a new thread but thought it would be easier to have all the background info in one place so heres an update.
Tigger now responds to Come when he's on or off lead. He will come trotting back towards you if on his lead until you start walking again and if he is off lead he comes right back and has a cuddle/treat. He seemed to make this distinction btw the two and it suits what we want from him so thats fine.
Problem arises when us saying Come is nowhere near as exciting as other dogs approaching/people shouting 'Hello boy!' from afar/birds daft enough to land close to him. When the above happen he IS DEAF! I really do mean all hearing ability gone, even his stance changes, , you can almost see him shut off his ears. He spots the thing he's after and then split seconds later he's gone and he wont then come back until he's finished. This is a nightmare obviously as I cant now let him offlead if there are people/dogs about and yet I believe he needs his off lead exercise.
So, to the point, distraction training? What do I do?
I keep getting the feeling that he *almost* gets what we want from him but not quite.

Hiya Tigger!!!!!
How old is he now??? Sorry can't remember off hadn but he's still only young isn't he???
We have so had this problem with Satan...sorry Saturn..!!!!

YOU need to be more interesting then anything or anyone else. He needs to want to be with you and he needs to be unsure of what your intentions are. Don't have a set walk, don't be afraid of changing directions (mid step if need be) if he heads off in front of you, turn around and walk the other way (keeping an eye on him obviously) but don't call him, let him realise and come to you, when he does. give him a treat and a tickle and a 'hiya Tigger!) Run around with him (changing direction) go out as a family and play hide and seek, shout him from one to the other...do not at any point let him assume that because you are walking in one direction, you are going to continue to do so!!!! Do all this on the flexi or long line. IF you find a quiet area let him off and practice off lead (often easier if you do this initially when it isn't just you...take one of your children too!!!) Play games, throw a ball all that sort of thing and keep your eye out for sidtractions, make sure you see them first!!! When you do...take your games up a notch...make a fool of your self if needs be and initially make sure (by walking away playing if needs be) that the distractions don't get too close. If he heads off, call him once or twice. If he ignores...go get him and pop him back on the lead. DON@T go home at that point...carry on wakling him, otherwise he'll start to not let you 'get' him!!!!! Make it fun again, if the park is busy, don't let him off. He'll soon get it.

It's hard work but this is the perfect time to do it with him. It will take a while. The trouble is you have done too good a job socialising him!!!! He loves everyone and everything so wants to be with them. All credit to you. Well done. His recall will improve with work and patience...you just need to be the most interesting thing ever, every time you go out!!!!! (Not always how you feel on a cold dark autumn day ....ah well!!!!!!)
Good luck!!!
Sorry for rambling!!!!
Ailsa xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx