The happy to be with you (that oncerecalled they want to stay with you, until released)

Are you saying dogswith recalls are robots? perhaps you should see Zola,she is a free spirit. We have a deal, she can run all the circuits she wants, aslong as she comes back when called & checks in .

After over 40 years of owning dogs, I have learned to never say “never” and to always keep an open mind.

We rescued Ben, son of our previous dog Hal, about 6 months ago. To start with, all was not too bad, the two males, Ben and Tai, seemed to bond well etc. etc.

However, things took an extremely bad turn for the worse. Ben went for my husband, did not bite him, but it was serious. It was due to Ben having had a very bad first 3 years of life where clearly he had not only been kept on a running line in the back garden, but had been beaten, kicked or struck in some way, following someone grabbing his collar and then hurting him. OH took hold of his collar too robustly, and Ben went for him. In addition to this, he and Tai were having terrible fights, serious fights where Tai always got injured. On top of this, Ben started to run off, having previously been pretty obedient off lead. He never ran away, just ran off. Over the last 6 or so months, we have tried everything. We have consulted several dog trainers and behaviourists in the area and beyond, and we have explored every single training technique, knowing they would not work, but still desperate to give them a go and succeed. We were staring failure in the face – Ben was going to have to be kept on the lead the whole time, a fate that I am afraid I would not inflict on any dog, certainly a dog who had been confined to a running line in the back garden for 3 years.

One of the trainers suggested an e-collar. I was dead against it, nobody was going to electrocute MY dog, I would not have done to my dog what I would not like done to myself, etc. etc. However, my husband was adamant, he has done a lot of research and reading up and talked to several people who had used an e collar successfully to train their dogs not to chase sheep – we live in serious sheep country here in Northamptonshire – and as he is the one who does the exercising during the week and the general dog care, and has to go searching for Ben every day when he runs off, I really was not in a position to do much about it. He borrowed an e collar with full instructions and a video and to demonstrate to me how safe the device was, he strapped it round his arm and told me to put the collar through its paces. I used the pager device, which is just a vibration then I used the “stim”, set to the lowest setting. I was very very uncomfortable doing this, as I am terrified of electricity, but he told me to keep doing it until we got to the higher levels, when he shrieked and jumped! I dropped the controller unit and burst into tears, I was so upset, and told him never ever ever to use it on Ben, except on the vibrate. He explained to me that he was just winding me up – he has a very black sense of humour – and it hadn’t hurt at all, it was static electricity not current, just like you get when you touch a metal filing cabinet or your car, but I wasn’t convinced. I was extremely concerned, but even I could see we had no choice, unless we were to keep Ben on the lead the whole time, which is just not an option.

So, last Wednesday, Ben wore the collar. As was his wont, the git ran away into the sheep field (currently empty of sheep) on the edge of the wood. OH did his usual thing of calling, whistling, following him with Tai as fast as he could run, but Ben took no notice whatsoever, so he used the vibrate on low. Nothing. He turned it up to the maximum rumble, absolutely nothing, Ben kept on running. He had the stim set to the very lowest, and so pressed the stim button, nothing. He gradually turned up the level and pressed the button (not continuously, just a split second nip), still nothing. He went higher to 30, 50, and at 50 Ben merely shook his head but kept on running. OH went all the way to the maximum, when eventually Ben screeched to a halt, looked at the dot in the far distance behind which was OH trying to catch up with him, and came galloping back to him! He had massive praise, his Fish 4 Dogs treat, and Mike turned round and walked back out of the field into the wood, and the walk proceeded. Ben carried on doing his thing, until they reached a patch of ground the other side of the wood where Ben always runs off. This day was no different. Mike went through the routine of pager, nothing. Stim on low setting, nothing, until he got up to about 80, when Ben yelped and came galloping back to massive hugs and rewards.

He has not run away at all since that day last Wednesday. He is still the same old Ben, still arsey, still grumbles if you try to make him do something he does not want to do, still bounds joyfully round the woods, greeting friends old and new, he is exactly the same dog … except he now comes when he is called.

On Saturday, we took Ben, me and OH and Tai, back to these same woods. The dog did not put a foot wrong. He was actually a bit quiet, and I was very worried that he was traumatised, psychologically damaged, and gave OH a hard time. The next day, Sunday, we went to Harlestone Firs on the edge of Northampton, and there was Ben roaring around having a whale of a time, greeting all and sundry, but every time I whistled “Ben! Come!” he would come running back to me, skidding to a halt in his haste to be obedient and get his praise and his Fish 4 Dogs.

And don’t think it is the treats – treats alone meant nothing, he loves his treats, but he loved being a hobo more. Now, thanks to the e collar he has the best of both worlds. I frankly cannot see anything wrong in this, we had an extreme situation, a situation which would have taken YEARS to train the dog out of, during which time he would most likely have been shot by a sheep farmer or got run over. He’s the same old Ben, arsey, naughty, playful, greedy, disobedient … but he COMES when he is called. Not always the perfect recall that you will get from a high obedience dog, but a nice recall which is more than good enough for me!

I will probably get castigated for this, but I am not ashamed of what my hubby has done - I wanted to present the "other side" of the e collar debate. There are very exceptional circumstances IMO when it can be justified.

I'm one of those people who gets excruciatingly painful static electric shocks

Personally, for me you've started yourself and poor Ben onto a slippery slope, have to agree with Linda and what she says about Loki, and I'd say the same about Mack, they are bright dogs, it won't be long before he starts testing . He is soon going to figure out that the shocks have stopped, or what happens the day the collar fails, or your OH is too slow, and Ben keeps running out of range.What you have done, will have to be continued forever

I can't believe you have been so flippant about the whole thing, that to your mind Ben is okay, because he is lying upside down while you type. You have not fixed or addressed the problem, merely masked it.

I accepted awhile ago, that certain situations Mack can not be let offlead, I haven't given up hope, and work constantly on his recall. I personally, don't think I am the cruel one. I'd never, ever break his trust in me, by hurting him for going with his own natural instincts.

I'm the same way, I only have to touch certain things to get a painful shock. The lifts at work were hell as the buttons wouldn't work if you had gloves on. I also frequently shock other people. Rupert gets shocked by me now and then and he leaps backwards and gives me this look of reproach before warily coming back to me.

static electricity can hurt like hell
People use the word to sound soft and fluffy
Lightning is static electricity - dont think anyone would ever say that dosent hurt

I can't say I've ever been struck by lightening, but I would imagine it would be quite painful!

That said, blue flash shocks between me and another person do look like mini lightening flashes - and they do hurt like hell. I'm used to it (well as used to it as you can be), but the pain often takes the other persons breath away. And then they never come within 10ft of me after that!

I can't say I've ever been struck by lightening, but I would imagine it would be quite painful!

That said, blue flash shocks between me and another person do look like mini lightening flashes - and they do hurt like hell. I'm used to it (well as used to it as you can be), but the pain often takes the other persons breath away. And then they never come within 10ft of me after that!