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BangKaew
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Location: A Scot in Thailand
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29-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
If I have a dangerous situation you can have an emergancy word that means something totaly AMAZING is about to happen

Lets face it if you need your dog to come back quick to you would you prefer that they fear the consiquences of NOT being close to you or that they really love being close to you and find running towards you the best thing in the whole world
I have to agree with this. I am constantly telling the thais helping me with my dogs that they will not come if they are afraid of you because you are angrily shouting at them!

But I cannot see how a dog on their back still play fighting is in any way submitting
I think they can be. When their tail raps around on to their belly I would say they are submitting because they know the play could turn nasty.
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Prager Hans
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29-08-2011, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
So - how I would deal with dog / dog or dog / human aggression without force.

Work on basic training and lead work.
Teach the watch me and behind sit.
Take dog out. (See, preparation is all)
At a distance from the `threat` - before yours starts to react - ask for attention, sit and then reward.
If you`ve got too close and the dog is beginning to react, turn and walk away, ask for attention and sit and reward the calm.
Repeat. Often.
As the dog becomes habituated to this strategy you can decrease the distance.

The dog has learned a way of coping that supercedes his previous `kick off and it goes away` method. He has also learned to defer to the handler, and is begining to trust the handler NOT to make the situation worse by shouting, , tightening the lead or hurting the dog.
Yes I agree that is how you train the dog to do it. This is how you teach not to be aggressive. Also you can wedge there somewhere reward. See dog reward walk away. This method was described by Michal W. Fox in BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS WITH DOGS. But that is not what I am asking.I am not asking how you teach not to be aggressive. What I am asking is what do you do when you walk with a dog and sees another dog and if he/she wants to attack it. Now you are holding onto the leash on whose other end is a dog in killing mode. Then what?
I do not want to hear :"Well my dog would never do that."
Prager Hans
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promarc
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29-08-2011, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Prager Hans View Post
Yes I agree that is how you train the dog to do it. This is how you teach not to be aggressive. Also you can wedge there somewhere reward. See dog reward walk away. This method was described by Michal W. Fox in BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS WITH DOGS. But that is not what I am asking.I am not asking how you teach not to be aggressive. What I am asking is what do you do when you walk with a dog and sees another dog and if he/she wants to attack it. Now you are holding onto the leash on whose other end is a dog in killing mode. Then what?
I do not want to hear :"Well my dog would never do that."
Prager Hans
Victoria stillwell has trained succesfully maybe you need to watch its me or the dog. ive seen plenty in that situation and she has corrected them.
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MerlinsMum
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29-08-2011, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by Prager Hans View Post
I have got a lot of positive PMs, but thay all were afraid to post here.
Were they in response to the unsolicited PMs you sent them?
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sarah1983
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29-08-2011, 06:15 PM
What I am asking is what do you do when you walk with a dog and sees another dog and if he/she wants to attack it. Now you are holding onto the leash on whose other end is a dog in killing mode. Then what?
I do not want to hear :"Well my dog would never do that."
You get out of the situation ASAP while taking whatever measures necessary to prevent either dog being seriously harmed. This is NOT a training situation, if you're so close that the reactive dog is reacting then you're too close for it to think and learn. You take measures so that you rarely (I won't say never as real life isn't that predictable) end up in the situation in the first place. You desensitise and change the reactive dogs view of other dogs. Teaching a watch me works with some dogs to stop them reacting, playing the "look at that dog!" game works with others.

That's how I deal with it with my dog. So...how would you deal with it?
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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29-08-2011, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by sarah1983 View Post
You get out of the situation ASAP while taking whatever measures necessary to prevent either dog being seriously harmed. This is NOT a training situation, if you're so close that the reactive dog is reacting then you're too close for it to think and learn. You take measures so that you rarely (I won't say never as real life isn't that predictable) end up in the situation in the first place. You desensitise and change the reactive dogs view of other dogs. Teaching a watch me works with some dogs to stop them reacting, playing the "look at that dog!" game works with others.

That's how I deal with it with my dog. So...how would you deal with it?
agree 100% at that point your dog is too hyped up for anything realy - you get out of the situation asap and then begin training again
At that point you are not training, the dog is over the point where they are actually learning anything

and one of the worst things you can do is touch the dog at this point - grab his collar, jab into his side, heel kick
This is dangerous and can cause the dog to redirect his anger without meaning to or even thinking about it
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sarah1983
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29-08-2011, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
and one of the worst things you can do is touch the dog at this point - grab his collar, jab into his side, heel kick
This is dangerous and can cause the dog to redirect his anger without meaning to or even thinking about it
Yup. I've been bitten twice this way. First time was sheer stupidity on my part, the 2nd time it was while keeping the fight from reaching 2 small children who were trapped between a market stall, a wall and the dogs. Luckily neither bite was a full on bite.
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Prager Hans
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29-08-2011, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by sarah1983 View Post
You get out of the situation ASAP while taking whatever measures necessary to prevent either dog being seriously harmed. This is NOT a training situation, if you're so close that the reactive dog is reacting then you're too close for it to think and learn. You take measures so that you rarely (I won't say never as real life isn't that predictable) end up in the situation in the first place. You desensitise and change the reactive dogs view of other dogs. Teaching a watch me works with some dogs to stop them reacting, playing the "look at that dog!" game works with others.

That's how I deal with it with my dog. So...how would you deal with it?
So you would use negative! ( taking whatever measures necessary ).
I just was curious about that.
However I believe that it is better to teach a dog what No means( humanly) and then, in situation described above , just say "no" and dog will stop.
Prager Hans
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sarah1983
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29-08-2011, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by Prager Hans View Post
So you would use negative! ( taking whatever measures necessary ).
I just was curious about that.
However I believe that it is better to teach a dog what No means( humanly) and then, in situation described above , just say "no" and dog will stop.
Prager Hans
If a dog is that far over threshold then the dog is highly unlikely to stop simply because you've said no. It's unlikely that it will even hear the no. I can prevent a reaction if I give the leave command before Rupe has gone into complete meltdown but once he's passed a certain point there's nothing to do but get him out of there and do damage control.

Out of curiosity though, how would you go about teaching it?
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ClaireandDaisy
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30-08-2011, 07:40 AM
Since dogs don`t speak English, you are not teaching No. You are teaching Stop, or possibly Wait using the sound `no`. (no idea what you`ve trained your dog to do when you say No).
No is a noise to a dog. If you train it to do an action when you say No, it is a Cue.
So you`ve trained an action to a Cue. Well done.
My No action word is Wait. The dog pauses till given another cue.
In the field it`s a Stop whistle command.
None of my dogs react to No because I haven`t trained them to do anything when I say it.
If your dog has trained itself to back off when you cue No, then you have a smart dog but your training could do with a bit of work IMO.
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