yes of course - i appologise about my attitude in some of my posts towards you as well, sorry - a lot of the time i am very aggressive in getting my point accross, and the way i put this accross can become very offensive, again you didnt deserve to get that at all, hope you dont hate me too much

just caught up with this post, my vet advised me not to take todd out until 10 days after he's last jab, (walking) but i did carry him around a lot to get used to the noise of the cars, horses going by and people, so by the time that he could go for a walk i had no problems with him, now at 16 weeks old i only have to put my coat on and he's ready waiting at the front door, (maybe the lady in question really needs some sound avdise if her puppy is that frightend)

I think the fact that the dog was kept in a cardboard box is just disgusting. Fair enough if it is an open box on your lap when you are travelling back from a rescue centre/ breeder, but to keep it in a box at that age is just awful.
It shows how unprepared she was for the puppy or how little she knows about looking after dogs.

Sorry to bring this one's ugly head up again, but out walking last night and we met a lab pup that was terrified of our (sis and mine)'s pups. She informed me that her vet said not to let the dog socialise until 4 months old.

Sorry but I think I am going to have to pay a little visit to the vets round here... being the only dog trainer in Dundee that I know of (the other one is not currently training) I think it's my responsibility to report what I am seeing - more and more owners with terrified puppies, totally un-necessary!

I started puppy training with our 16 week old Airedale (crocodale at the moment!) last Wednesday. There was another puppy the same age (labrador) who hadn't met any dogs at all until that night. It was terrified of the dogs and all the humans. We had to swap dogs to do a vet check on the other and it wouldn't come anywhere near me, even when I just worked on getting it to approach me for a bit of cheese. When we did recall the owner was reluctant to let the trainer hold the pup while she moved down the hall to call it, and they had the puppy on their lap the whole time it wasn't involved in the exercises.

Our puppy was carried around outside until a week after her last injection, we had various people come round to the house every day until she was allowed out, and have asked people out walking with dogs if she can say hello to their dogs (ie if they are OK with puppies). She is very confident and approaches everyone and every dog with tails held high and wagging madly.

I believe that early socialisation can make a big difference. Airedales are pretty confident dogs anyway, but it has meant that she has taken everything she's encoutered in her stride so far (including standing outside watching the fireworks on new year's eve!).

Kate x

Yup, this happens a lot at our puppy/young dog classes too!

I'm sure this is why you end up with snappy smaller dogs a lot of the time, as they're never allowed near other dogs...

Our trainers are forever telling people to put their dogs down, and "stop fussing"...

Yes i agree early socialisation is VITAL...mine are carried until a week after their last jab. They meet other dogs, other people, different situations from the safety and security of my arms...then it's down they go in situations they are already familiar with.
The issue here is NOT early socialisation as I think we would all agree it is VITAL the issue is puppy vaccinations they are also VITAL for the health of the pup and the health of the general dog population.

4 months before socialising - that is ridiculous. That is equivalent to about a 12 year old in human years,

Sometimes I despair of vets. Thank goodness Hal's was a very sensible lady.

''The issue here is NOT early socialisation as I think we would all agree it is VITAL the issue is puppy vaccinations they are also VITAL for the health of the pup and the health of the general dog population.''

I feel it is an issue that I should raise with the vets Ramble as these dogs are suffering, in my opinion, with severe stress, which I believe is un-necessary, inflicted by humans because of the lack of understanding.

Let's not bring up the vaccs. issue again, we are going to be at loggerheads for a while over this one I feel.

Why is it an issue with the vets anyway?
I don't go to my Dr for behaviour advice for my child, I read and speak to other people who are 'child behaviour' experts...
IMO it's up to puppy owner to research as much as possible before pups come home, I did that years ago when we got Biff and Mo and I knew then to get them out and about in my arms. Every decent puppy book will tell you that.
The vets do their job and tell new owners not to put pups on the floor until they are fully covered by their vaccinations. IMO it is not up to them to tell new puppy owners to socialise pups... it is up to new owners to ensure they know as much as possible about RESPONSIBLE dog ownership. Vets cannot do everything...just like GPs can't do everything.