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Location: UK
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Posts: 9,065
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08-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
By successfully relieving the discomfort, so to use your example by putting a heater in.
In the case of dogs it would be performing the behaviour that relieves the discomfort, ceasing to pull for example.
Adam
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Location: UK
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08-02-2011, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Moonstone
Adam can't you give up, and admit your ways are cruel, out dated, and you are not convincing anyone that you know anything about dog training, except how to train with pain.
You go train a dog using only positive methods only, and then maybe people would take you more seriously. Go hang up the zappers, and prongs, and do the dogs a favour, as you don't come across as someone who even loves or respects dogs at the moment.
Adam
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Location: USA/UK
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08-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
By successfully relieving the discomfort, so to use your example by putting a heater in.
In the case of dogs it would be performing the behaviour that relieves the discomfort, ceasing to pull for example.
Adam
What utter bo******* I see lots of dogs pulling like train , with prong collars on their necks. So according to you because the prongs are digging in, they should have some lightbulb moment and stop pulling. Guess, what they don't .
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Location: UK
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08-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
No Adam...I am asking you why I DO NOT do it - I do nothing to relieve my discomfort...I deal! WHY?
But do get a heater if you want.
Adam
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Location: UK
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08-02-2011, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I think I have a lot more respect for dogs than people who condemn them to a life of restriction or euthanise them when they don't respond to their training techniques.
Adam
Well.....thats how you come across anyway.
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Location: UK
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08-02-2011, 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I'm not you, and you are not a dog so I'm not really interest.
But do get a heater if you want.
Adam
You are NOT me, just as you are NOT a dog - you base your flimsy excuses on your own feelings - not the possibility of what the other creature may be feeling or the thought process that go behind it.
That is why I cannot rate you as a trainer.
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Location: In an English country cowpat
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08-02-2011, 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
That is why I cannot rate you as a trainer.
Either to dogs or other people!
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Location: UK
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08-02-2011, 10:20 PM
How many dogs (reward trained) never get to free run, never get to interact with other dogs, never get to go anywhere but the same boring quiet walks in case they react badly. Loads!
The dogs I train can run off the lead anywhere, can interact with other dogs and go to new interesting places, in short they can be dogs!
At the same time as allowing them this freedom the owner also has the control to recall them or put them in a down/heel/stay if they need to.
I see plenty of reward trained dogs who's owners can barely hold them on a lead let alone have any actual verbal control of them.
Adam
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Location: UK
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08-02-2011, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Re suppressing natural behaviours.
How many dogs (reward trained) never get to free run, never get to interact with other dogs, never get to go anywhere but the same boring quiet walks in case they react badly. Loads!
Hmm.....really?? Not the ones I know.
The dogs I train can run off the lead anywhere, can interact with other dogs and go to new interesting places, in short they can be dogs!
Hmm.....based on your videos - I would say not. not if you are instilling the same fear in them as you have managed in your own dogs
At the same time as allowing them this freedom the owner also has the control to recall them or put them in a down/heel/stay if they need to.
I see plenty of reward trained dogs who's owners can barely hold them on a lead let alone have any actual verbal control of them.
Adam
Your posts all seem to swear off reward based training on the basis of what you have seen from owners....do you base your experience on what other people fail at or what you have failed at?
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Location: Elsewhere
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08-02-2011, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Discomfort changes behaviour all the time, anytime you adjust your position in your chair, any time you blink or shield your eyes in strong sunlight, anytime you change the temperature of your environment you are changing your behaviour to deal with discomfort.
Adam
That is not changing my behaviour Adam, if it did I wouldnt sit in a chair, or go out in the sunlight etc. Are you really that nieve?
Now if sat down and got a shock everytime, yes I would stop sitting down. If everytime I went out in the sun I started to burn like a vampire, I wouldnt go out in the sun.
Are you seeing the difference?
Discomfort does not change a behaviour especially one you get a lot of reward out of, pain does!