Could you stick to the topic please. This is about using an Ecollar when all other methods have failed.

Good point! Let them run in front of cars! Let them chase stock and be shot! Let them bite guests in the home! They're dog and they should get to do whatever they want!!!

Of course this is just plain silly. While there are people who want robot dogs, I'm not one of them. I train dogs that need to think and problem solve. They can't do that if they life in pain or fear.

I thought I was being silly but based on these comments I guess not LOL. Let your dog chase cars, let them fight other dogs, let them eat the little old ladies. Maybe it's just me but I think that SOME people might think that you should get your dogs under control ROFLMAO.

Oh! Here we are back at reality. "Working with him" is a GREAT idea. And when some methods fail there are others that may work.

Who is advocating "zapping" a dog "to teach it where to go?" No one that I've seen. Wondering if we could stick to the topic?

this thread is far too long for me to read all the way through, but i think ive got the gist from the first few pages.

my thoughts firstly was that a qualified and experienced behaviourist will be able to help you solve your dogs aggression problems. It sounds to me like the person who helped you was under qualified. I am beginning to doubt that the trainer was not a member of the apdt as they require all of their qualified trainers to use positive methods of training, this does not sound to be the case.

Also, a trainer is not a behaviourist. When dealing with aggression you should only seek help from a qualified behaviourist, preferably recommended by your vet. A behaviourist can be a trainer, but a trainer is not always a behaviourist and therefore if not qualified in this field would of course not been able to help you in the way you needed. This is not clarified in the post, but i do agree that you should have got a refund and been recommended to someone that could help you.


I would also like to say that this post just sounds like someone advertising e-collars, and im sorry but if they didnt hurt, they wouldnt work would they! If they are only meant to shock the dog enough for him to stop the behaviour, then i would have thought a water spray would have the same effect! obv this is not the case.

i hope this thread is blocked soon, i dont think there are many people on here that will ever use e collars

we are on topic thanks
i was using it as an example and never said any one did.
if you read my reply the way it was wrote and not cutting the rest of it out it doesn't not read the way your impling.
you talk about others staying on topic ........ being civil etc you should try taking your own advice!

have you ever thought others feel as strong as you do regarding these collars even if they are the opposite side of the debate?

im not sure who i quoted that off, but im sorry to tell you, there are some very good behaviourists out there who DO solve these kinds of behaviour problems without use of e-collars. There is not need for them in this day and age. So dont sit there and tell all us that they are used as a last resort. There have been hundreds of accounts of dogs behaviour problems being solved without use of these devices, they are not neccessary

Of course there are Lou. The very first, particularly with a UK Westie would be a vet check to rule out allergies as they are a huge contributing factor to behaviour and Westies are prone to them. If the Westie was under 12 months old (and I forget in this particular case) then also a check on a condition sometimes known as Westie Jaw which again is fairly common and only affects dog up to approximately 12 months, is highly painful and can be life-threatening.

Other than ruling out medical, no I wouldn't advise over the internet or by telephone. Training is, or should be, looking at the whole relationship, not 'fire-fighting' by overcoming one 'symptom' after another while ignoring the root cause.

Yes the would and they do. The feeling isn't pleasant, it's uncomfortable and the dog wants to make it stop. He's shown how to do that during the training. If it's chilly and you have a sweater, usually you'll put it on, unless there's some reason not to. That doesn't hurt, it's just uncomfortable.

Just hurting the dog to make him stop a behavior is one use of the tool. It's not what I advocate. In this problem, aggression doing that is probably just going to make the problem worse.

Water sprays, what a GREAT example. First of all I'm not so sure just how "positive" they are. They work because some dogs don't like it, just as they don't like the stim from an Ecollar. But as with these methods, water doesn't always work. Some dogs LOVE being sprayed and some don't care at all. When it works it's great. When it doesn't all you get is a wet dog.

Even if ONLY ONE PERSON ever finds themselves at the place of Ms. Halberstrom and saves their dog's life with an Ecollar, I'll be happy.

in your own words you have put "The feeling isn't pleasant,"
i don't want to inflict any type of unpleasant feelings upon my dogs regardless of what form it comes in or use any methods which does.

azz please consider locking this thread as it is just going round in circles, there is for and against and it isn't going to change.

No, I'm sorry you're not. Bringing up what I'd consider to be misuse or even abuse of a dog by "zapping" him for "going in the wrong place" is off topic. This is about using an Ecollar to save a dog's life when other methods have failed.

All the time. But there's a difference between those folks and me. I've used just about every tool and method that exists for the purpose of training a dog. I still use methods besides the Ecollar when it's appropriate. I've also used Ecollars with great success. Few of those on the other side of this discussion have ever even seen an Ecollar, much less used one as I teach. Instead they imagine how horrible it must be, or they come from a "nanny state of mind" meaning that someone told them . . .

Just as an example, have you ever used a modern Ecollar as I advocate?

Oh yawn - seems to me this whole thread was set up so that you could air your views again OR you jumped on board and used it anyway.

It is difficult to exhibit PC-politeness to people that cynically do the above to push their products or beliefs, knowing full-well the reception they will receive. Someone has to stand up for the dog on the receiving end.