register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Borderdawn
Dogsey Veteran
Borderdawn is offline  
Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
Is that your way of saying, "fair enough, I now understand and accept that the test was not available at the time he was first at stud and that yes I can now see that Mary did have his eyes checked in the only available mode at that time which showed him as Unaffected and when the DNA test became available obviously she had it done which is how she now knows he is a carrier"

No, it means exactly what I said Patch! He has produced affected puppies regardless of the tests available at the time, its those poor Dogs I feel sorry for, nobody else. Im not apologising for anything.

I have been on the recieving end of dodgy blood tests myself, a dog that was clear, obviously wasnt, BUT, I will say that if Mary had her Dog retested then thats good for her, because the ****** that I was involved with wouldnt and the dog was still subsequently used!
Reply With Quote
mishflynn
Dogsey Veteran
mishflynn is offline  
Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Why is the stud dog always blamed?
Reply With Quote
Patch
Dogsey Veteran
Patch is offline  
Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
No, it means exactly what I said Patch! He has produced affected puppies regardless of the tests available at the time, its those poor Dogs I feel sorry for, nobody else. Im not apologising for anything.
Dawn, he`d had the tests available at the time which indicated he was fine to breed from, that is the case for every single BC breeder who had the available tests done before DNA testing was sorted, and goes for every breeder of any breed for which tests are now available which did`nt used to be but made the effort to utilise whatever tests could be done - the science which indicated there was no problem is the issue, not the breeders who utilised and trusted in that science.

Is it really so hard for you to say you may have made an assumption which was rather unfair given that the dog in question was tested by what was available at the time and was used for stud because the science indicated it was ok to do so ?

I have been on the recieving end of dodgy blood tests myself, a dog that was clear, obviously wasnt, BUT, I will say that if Mary had her Dog retested then thats good for her, because the ****** that I was involved with wouldnt and the dog was still subsequently used!
Can`t you honestly say that through less gritted teeth ? What about TNS ? So recently discovered, but thankfully a test sorted quickly - but can breeders of past TNS affected litters be blamed for breeding a condition which was`nt identified before and which could`nt be tested for until recently ?
Reply With Quote
colliemad
Dogsey Senior
colliemad is offline  
Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 564
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
No, it means exactly what I said Patch! He has produced affected puppies regardless of the tests available at the time, its those poor Dogs I feel sorry for, nobody else. Im not apologising for anything.

I have been on the recieving end of dodgy blood tests myself, a dog that was clear, obviously wasnt, BUT, I will say that if Mary had her Dog retested then thats good for her, because the ****** that I was involved with wouldnt and the dog was still subsequently used!

why do you feel sorry for the dogs? They would only be mildly affected and it is not a progressive disease like PRA so if it shows in a pup it does not get any worse through it's life. I know of a couple of dogs in agility that are affected from litters that were born around the time the DNA test became available, it hasn't affected their quality of life in any way
Reply With Quote
Anne-Marie
Dogsey Veteran
Anne-Marie is offline  
Location: Cumbria, UK
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,111
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 08:17 PM
I think this thread needs to be separated as it has gone waay off topic for several pages!!



Originally Posted by Hali View Post
I used to really enjoy watching it, but I'm afraid the last two years, I got a bit bored.

Not taking anything away from how well trained her dogs are, but I started to wonder whether it was time for the slot to be filled by other types of 'dog entertainment' showing training/handling skills of different kinds? HTM could still make an appearance from time to time, but if not on each year, it might seems less repetitive.
I totally agree with you Hali. Whilst I totally admire Mary Ray and her dogs performances, I do feel it is time for a change.

I would love to see a Gundog or Police/Army Display team for instance. Or some working trial performance - something different for a change.

Not taking anything away from Mary and her outstanding ablilities as a trainer either. I think she is amazing, but I do feel it is time to allow others into the spotlight - literally!!
Reply With Quote
Mahooli
Dogsey Veteran
Mahooli is offline  
Location: Poodle Heaven!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,297
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 08:21 PM
Now that would be great, something different but equally spectacular!
Becky
Reply With Quote
colliemad
Dogsey Senior
colliemad is offline  
Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 564
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by Anne-Marie View Post
I would love to see a Gundog or Police/Army Display team for instance. Or some working trial performance - something different for a change
I didn't watch her this year, I only really watch small parts of the crufts programmes on the telly as I find the presenters really annoying but I do agree. I would love to watch something like this with the police or army dogs showing what they can do
Reply With Quote
Patch
Dogsey Veteran
Patch is offline  
Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by colliemad View Post
why do you feel sorry for the dogs? They would only be mildly affected and it is not a progressive disease like PRA so if it shows in a pup it does not get any worse through it's life. I know of a couple of dogs in agility that are affected from litters that were born around the time the DNA test became available, it hasn't affected their quality of life in any way
My Willow has CEA too. In his case, he was from a merle to merle mating at a time when breeders knew damned well that it could well happen, [ he is also deaf as a result, as is Defa, as is Silk ].
Now those merle to merle breeders I feel intense anger toward because they knew the risks but did`nt give a hoot. So when I know of breeders taking avoidable risks I jump on them from a great height.
But the ones who did have tests done as were available and believed that everything was ok because that`s what the results indicated, to feel anger toward them would be wrong, they are not to blame for science being too slow to give the knowledge available now.

Does Willow `suffer` because he has CEA ?
Nope.
He does`nt know any different, he does`nt know that his vision is impaired compared to other dogs` sight.
No one wants their dog to have an imperfection obviously, but he has it, can`t change that, so as he is happy to just get on with enjoying life I`m not going to sit wringing my hands over him being a `poor dog`
Reply With Quote
Patch
Dogsey Veteran
Patch is offline  
Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by colliemad View Post
I didn't watch her this year, I only really watch small parts of the crufts programmes on the telly as I find the presenters really annoying but I do agree. I would love to watch something like this with the police or army dogs showing what they can do

I`m working on some choreographed stuff with my agility students, some bits using the equipment and some not, just for a bit of extra fun and hopefully to use when we start doing displays locally - wonder if I can get it good enough for my people to take the spotlight one year
Reply With Quote
colliemad
Dogsey Senior
colliemad is offline  
Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 564
Female 
 
14-03-2008, 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
My Willow has CEA too. In his case, he was from a merle to merle mating at a time when breeders knew damned well that it could well happen, [ he is also deaf as a result, as is Defa, as is Silk ].
Now those merle to merle breeders I feel intense anger toward because they knew the risks but did`nt give a hoot. So when I know of breeders taking avoidable risks I jump on them from a great height.
But the ones who did have tests done as were available and believed that everything was ok because that`s what the results indicated, to feel anger toward them would be wrong, they are not to blame for science being too slow to give the knowledge available now.

Does Willow `suffer` because he has CEA ?
Nope.
He does`nt know any different, he does`nt know that his vision is impaired compared to other dogs` sight.
No one wants their dog to have an imperfection obviously, but he has it, can`t change that, so as he is happy to just get on with enjoying life I`m not going to sit wringing my hands over him being a `poor dog`

A dog with mild CEA does not have impaired vision, it is an abnormality in the development of their eye, a severely affected dog however is a totally different matter as is merle to merle breeding
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 15 of 24 « First < 5 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 > Last »


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top