I so agree with that, my greatest achievement is teaching Zymi my working lines Beardie to settle

c m himself says at the beginning of the programme, i dont train dogs, i train humans, i agree with wys too, that you cant generalise all dogs, they are all different, and what would work for one, wouldnt for another, we all love and care for our dogs as best we can, some of cms ideas are good, others not so good, remember barbara woodhouse?

that`s a cop-out IMO. The reason he doesn`t train dogs is that you can`t, using his methods.

You certainly can There's a few of us on here that can confirm that CM methods do work for us. We just don't try to shove them down other peoples' throats. I'm not bothered what methods people use to train their dogs, just so long as they don't try to tell me what I'm doing is wrong. Everyone should be able to choose which training methods they adopt, without being shouted down

Actually a lot of it seems to be based on folkloric tales of wolves and the cultural believes about dogs that he grew up with. Common is what he uses because it is his substitute for actual KNOWLEDGE.

Yesterday I saw him and he was talking about a dog that was ANXIOUS AND BECAME FEARFUL WHO THEN BECAME DOMINANT. Than people can swallow these snake oil explanations is beyond me.

Wys, I get the impression that your intentions are good. I *think* (forgive me if I'm mistaken) that you mentioned elsewhere that you advised your students not to use CM's techniques?

Think about what you've just said, and bearing in mind that (again, I think) I remember you saying that you approved of the way I raise my dogs (based upon what I'd told you).

Now consider that very many people that watch CM and use his methods are using the very same bits that I and others on this thread find work so well. The advise that CM gives out for normal dogs isn't really anything that your average trainer would dissaprove of - UNTIL you tell them that the advice came from CM. If you start ranting on to me about CM's techniques being cruel I just assume you need your bumps felt I know that what I do is not by any stretch of the imagination cruel and I know that it does work. Others might be more willing to blindly follow the advice of the teacher at their local training club. In which case, think about what you're telling them is cruel:

1. Exercising their dog.
2. Having rules, boundaries and limitations
3. Being a firm and consistent leader
4. Treating them like dogs rather than children

...and so on. It might not be the message you intend to convey, but if you aren't entirely honest and spell out what you think is good and what you think is bad you will misslead your students and that could be harmful to their dogs.

Are you absolutely sure you're giving your students the message that you want to give them?

Rather than making blanket statements about the man and his methods that to the unbiased, educated observer are clearly untrue and unfounded why not accept that much of what he does is fine (perhaps not what you do, but certainly not cruel and according to all accounts very many people have considerable success with it) and concentrate on presenting very articulate explanations as to why you think certain aspects are cruel?

It's these blanket 'hate campaigns' and quite obvious misrepresentation of the facts that cause people to dismiss you as cranks and take no notice of what are perhaps some valid arguments.

But the comment is correct, they don't travel at high speeds. They may do short bursts, no more. They don't run at high speed. Wherever you got that notion, it is wrong. They travel at around 18-20 km/h (for a large dog)

They also don't pull extremely heavy loads. They loads are relatively light when we divide them among the team, and the real issue is breaking the initial momentum. Once it's moving, they only have to maintain enough force to counteract the friction.

That just you continuing with your long history of mental cross-species telepathy.


All the evidence says you are not.

Gnasher, Millan does take unfit dogs and excercises them to the point of exhaustion. Many of the dog on the show have short walks only a couple of times per week, some even less than that. As a runner, I can tell you that aerobic fitness does not come from walking, and even a month of not running results in significant drop in my aerobic capacity.


1. Nice
2. Meaningless platitude
3. By firm he means hit.
4. We share much in common with other animals, so unless you (or Millan) provides a specif example this is another meaningless platitude

hi slightly off topic,sorry
i cannot answer for the other sled dog breeds but in the case of sibes it is not the desire to pull that makes them excel at their job(although it helps)it is their gait,whilst working,they can do it endlessly and will only use as much effort as they need,no more
for example,when i was a hydrotherapist i would swim my oldest bitch in full jets,she would plod on forever without raising a pant,i wouldn't of been able to do this with many other breeds of dogs.
all my sibes can walk perfectly to heel and also pull in harness