Ok Bitkin you'r on! Not that I am any good at science but I'll follow your lead!

Wysiwyg it all sounds very daunting have to say! But do you know of any success stories? It would be sooo encouraging to hear that some dogs have actually been cured. I think that's the worst thing when working with sa anxiety you never seem to see any positive results from all your hard work

Oh yes, but each situation is always different to the next one!
Not all succeed, but some do.
Treatment varies too - as an example, some dogs are better crated, and find it comforting, whereas some are terrified crated, and damage themselves and the crate/environment to get out of it. If only dog training was prescriptive, that would be so nice!

I'd say the Pat McConnell book is a good way to go

Wys
x

Thank you so much Wys - I always appreciate it when someone takes the time and trouble to write a long post (in our long thread !), and yes, all this will be added to my booklet of remedial action.

We have been doing the desentising thing, although some of it such as jangling keys or shutting the door does not phase Jimmi - changing clothes does excite him though, mainly because at the moment he sees it as a prelude to a walk, so this is something that we can work on along with other indicators that we are going out sans dog.

I am lucky in that for the moment we have been able to avoid leaving Jimmi alone since we started the training programme, as there are two of us, (in fact husband went on his own to Waitrose this morning as it was too hot to take Jimmi and leave him in the car......grrrrrrr, however it is my turn to go next time!!!) but 1cute dog is not quite so fortunate as she is just one person and with the best will in the world she simply HAS to go out and leave Lana for the odd hour here and there. I do totally agree with what you are saying though, it is just that for some people it is impossible to stay at home with their dog for weeks or even months on end without going out.

At least Jimmi loves his crate and uses it voluntarily throughout the day and sometimes at night; BUT I have seen the strength of his jaws in the damage that he did to metal things in the kitchen, and would worry that he may damage himself trying to get out of the cage if left for too long shut in. This is why we realise that we have a very long road ahead of us.

Your point regarding other factors causing problems when dogs are left alone is very interesting, and in fact I have heard of a dog ripping up the kitchen floor and it turned out to be central heating pipes making a noise that nobody else could hear Still, this sort of alternative reason does not seem to apply at the moment to Lana and Jimmi (don't know about Bessie), as they both tend to start yelling and becoming distressed within seconds or now minutes in Jimmi's case of being left alone.

Repetition, repetition repetition.......this is what Helena has drummed into us, as did the Behaviourist from DT when I wrote/rang her. You advise it too, so that is what we are doing, ..............oh dear, I do hope that it does eventually work.

Cardaph..........we need a scientist!!! You know, a wild haired, slightly mad but totally brilliant individual who will pour over figures and equations for a little while then come up with a potion

wysiwyg thanks for your post. You confirmed what I had already thought that it's no good me trying to desensitise Lana as on occasions I have to go out and leave her or else I have to leave her outside a shop.

She's very good outside the shops now, I tell her to be quiet before I go in, and she is. Wish it worked for leaving her at home as well. I went out this morning, I only opened the main door and she started barking. I shouted up the stairwell for her to be quiet, but I've no idea if it did quieten her for any length of time as I had to run out the door. I was away for an hour. She was very excited when I came back. She doesn't tear up paper anymore, probably because she's too busy barking, yelping and crying

Lana appears to be worse now than she was She has started following me from room to room which she never did before, although not following close behind me but if I go to do something in one room and stay longer than 30 second she comes and lies down there. I think it was because I was going out so often, now she feels she has to watch me in case I run out on her Poor little booger that she is.

I saw an advert for a dog sitter today and took note of the number so will give them a ring tomorrow. Lana just appears to be scared on her own. The first time I left her with my son she whined the whole time, had only had her a week at that point, but was fine after that and was fine when my son took her for walks so it's not so much missing me as just needing a person there. The rest of the time I'll just have to take her with me and use the dog sitter for emergencies or maybe for once a week just to give me a break. I'm not going to be doing any more leaving her for a couple of minutes a few times a day as this seems to have made her worse. I'll just spend more time playing and training her and hope as she gets older she'll get better How's that for optimism.

Cardaph I shall wait with baited breath for your reports once you get the behaviourist in.

Good grief 1cutedog - why are we blessed with such problem dogs! You are trying everything possible, and in your circumstances I think that I would do the same thing......i.e. find a good dog sitter. In a way, I have already done this by employing the use of my daughter for a couple of future dates when both husband and myself have to be out together and fortunately I know that Jimmi will be okay with her for a couple of hours.

Lana does seem to have become more anxious rather than more relaxed, and I wish that I had a magic wand.

I would write more, but I am too upset and angry because Jimmi killed a baby blackbird this evening. (I have even put up a thread about it just to unburden myself ). If he does that again I won't care if he is miserable about being left alone!!!

Hopefully Lana will get better again, she doesn't appear to be 100% just now, keeps eating grass. Of course I keep thinking maybe she's coming into season but I've been thinking that for the last 7 months I wonder how long before I can think that she's definitely not going to come into season and that she has been dressed.

At least she seems to be fine waiting outside shops for me now. I've found one which isn't as far away as the other one I use but is up Mount Everest but at least once I've been it's downhill then to come home, fine for summer but don't fancy it when it's icy.

It's good for ebay sellers as I am buying so much from there, things that I would normally buy locally but can't leave Lana outside as they are in the shopping mall or it's too busy or I don't like the look of people outside. I am about 3 minutes walking distance from the shopping mall and can't even get there

I'll phone the dog sitters tomorrow and grill them, find out how much notice I need to give, if it's always the same person who comes and so on, then meet them and see if they are good enough to leave Lana with I think it will be easier in the long run to accept that Lana doesn't like to be on her own and not upset her any more. You never know, she might mellow with age. Then again she might just have thought if she's quiet outside the shops I will always take her with me and if she barks when left in the house that I won't leave her behind. You never know she might just be a smart little cookie.

aww bad little Jimmi killing the little baby blackbird and getting his mummy upset and angry but that's what terriers do so it's not really his fault. Maybe if you stay angry with him and give off hate vibes like I did to my previous dog, he will make a miraculous recovery and you'll be able to go out and about whenever you like.

1cutedog - it's really good that Lana will stay outside shops that's another area we've failed in with Bessie. I am at the PO most days as I sell on Ebay and I started leaving her tied up outside. At first she didn't react much when being tied up and was actually quiet whilst I was in the shop. But over time she started reacting more, jumping up, grabbing my coat and growling as I left. Then she started half way up the street jumping up and getting herself in a right old state. So have had to abandon doing that as I don't think getting herself in that kind of tiz was good for her or me.

Bitkin - yes a scientist or a wizard perhaps? Naughty Jimmi killing the bird I would have been upset too. Bessie is manic about chasing birds.

Good evening 1cutedog and Cardaph........this thread is beginning to feel rather like a cosy corner in a pub It may just as well be as our efforts to put our particular worlds to rights are about as effective as the general chat in a pub

You know Lana best 1cutedog, and also have to take into account your situation at the top of the stairs, so if a regular dogsitter is the way to go for you then at least you will have peace of mind whilst out for any length of time. This may also in time help towards Lana being left alone as she gradually gets used to you not being there without the trauma of feeling totally abandoned by the human race Well, that may sound dramatic, but who knows what goes on in their tiny little brains.

Cardaph, we are really looking forward to your behaviourist's input..........I bet it is the same as the Dogs Trust one; I think that most of them sing from the same hymn sheet Wys is so right about consulting one though, because sometimes they come up with something new to suit a particular situation - it can be so difficult to think straight when living on top of a problem.

Jimmi, in spite of the heat, has spent most of the day trying to catch and kill another baby bird. He is totally obsessed, and I take small comfort in the fact that Bessie is the same. Terriers cannot help themselves I know, but I still hate it. I had to go over to babysit grandson for a couple of hours earlier this evening, and Jimmi spent the whole time at the window waiting for my return, BUT there was no whining or distress so that was good. As well as the crate training, I will try to go out every day for varying amounts of time so that he becomes as used to me going out as he is my husband.

I clinically need a drink *plonks magic bottle on table

Cardaph, that's such a shame about Bessie not staying outside the shops anymore without causing a fuss. She must have got fed up going every day. I don't know why Lana's decided to behave outside the shops now, she used to bark non stop and would sometimes bark at me when I came out again. She also used to try to go on the outside of the pavement if we were passing the shop and if we passed without going in she would jump up at me with joy

She's maybe thought that it's better to behave there than be left alone in the house, that I was leaving her home alone because she made such a fuss outside the shops. I'll have to think up something really horrible for her so that she would rather stay at home alone than do the other thing

Wondering what you sell on ebay and if I've purchased from you

Same as Bitkin I will look forward to how you get on with the behavourist and how well it works out.

I'm going to try Lana out within the next week with a dog sitter. I really need to get to the library as I've nothing left to read so will phone them tomorrow and find out how soon they can come. I'll book them for an hour but will probably be quicker than that.

ah so Jimmi's got a taste for the birds now. That's great that he didn't whine and wasn't distressed when you went out today and good that you're going to leave him a while every day. That will get him used to being without you. Once he's used to that he might be a lot better at being left on his own, or am I being too optimistic again

No probs, it isn't an easy problem to solve and can be so distressing for owners and dogs.... but don't give up
It is a common problem, because dogs evolved to be social animals and it's not really natural for them to be separated much from the family as babies, and dogs tend to sort of stay at the baby stage really (because of domestication).

Good luck with the desensitisation.

Yes, agree and understand. It can be very hard to organise. The best way is often to organise pet sitters, relatives, friends etc for every time you need to go out. Maybe consider ordering food online etc
Harder for those who work all day.
If the programme is doing well, it may be that after a few months the dog can indeed be left.
I like DAP - used 24/7 - it doesn't help all dogs but can take the edge off anxiety.
Sometimes medication can help to open that "window of opportunity" for learning that it's OK to behome alone. A friend of mine, a behaviourist, helped one dog (she worked with vet, did a full case history, and along with the medication and her behaviour programme, the dog was very much improved in a few months and now the owners can leave it for "normal" periods of time i.e. 4 hours or so.

Your point regarding other factors causing problems when dogs are left alone is very interesting, and in fact I have heard of a dog ripping up the kitchen floor and it turned out to be central heating pipes making a noise that nobody else could hear Still, this sort of alternative reason does not seem to apply at the moment to Lana and Jimmi (don't know about Bessie), as they both tend to start yelling and becoming distressed within seconds or now minutes in Jimmi's case of being left alone.

It might be the case though, because the dog's might anticipate the problem. Ie "If I am left alone, I cannot cope with what might happen or what did happen last time".

Not saying this is the case, but the dogs will still often react at once. But as I say, not saying this is the case with any of these guys and would not presume to say so, but just putting it forward as a thought for possible consideration

Repetition, repetition repetition.......this is what Helena has drummed into us, as did the Behaviourist from DT when I wrote/rang her. You advise it too, so that is what we are doing, ..............oh dear, I do hope that it does eventually work.

Well no one can say that you aren't all really trying!

best wishes
Wys
x

Ps oops sorry - went from proper quotes to italics there!!