There is a thread on here about breaking sticks, that yet again hayley started. I agree it is a matter of personal choice BUT i think if you read through the thread you have mentioned and this thread you`ll find that hayley is constantly saying we should all own breaking sticks!

I havent got the time to read through all the thread, sadly I know only too well the damage that Bull Breeds can do to each other when they fight, spat, call it what you like. I'm not going to bang on about break sticks, it's a personal choice for any owner of multiple bull breeds, you certainly don't need them if you have just the one dog. I think any owner who owns multiple bull breeds knows only too well what can happen if their dogs chose to 'fall out' for whatever reason, the mistake people like me and others make, is trusting our dogs and thinking that we know them enough to behave around other dogs, even dogs they live with. Any dog can kill another dog, it's nothing to do with the breed, what they were bred for etc, etc, two dogs fall out and have a full on spat/fight theres a good chance if it's not seperated quickly enough you stand a good chance of loosing one, full stop.

I swep trough the 14 pages

a few comments

1: as to my poor choise of words; English is my 4th language so excuse me that i have a limited vocabulary i invite all of you to write a sencible text in Dutch.
2: as to the abilities of the owner. This is a guy that trains in Belgian Ring. which as such means that he is at least a good trainer and this on a world level. Even more he is a decoy in BR; and a good one, so he knows how to read a dog and surely he knows what dog bites are and how to stop them. Even more how many of you can train a dog to do a directed search of explosives out of sight or even dropped out of an helicopter. So please don't insult his training abilities by sugesting he is a poor trainer
3: I stand by my point dµthat dogs and childeren dont mix that well: look at the statistics about bite accidents and where and how they occure
4: those where 2 Amstaffs and the fight lasted only seconds and apparently it wasn't a lucky bite that killed the dog

Greetings

Johan

I agree that we shouldn't withold the downsides of any breed (no matter how common the trait is across a number of breeds). We have to face reality, not try to paint a false picture (which we would if we didn't talk about the cons). I appreciate some people want to portray the breeds as best as possible, and that's nice - but we shouldn't stop discussing the wider issues too, or people become ill-informed.

With regards to Hayley, I think many people get a little irratated by her posting sometimes, for example she said something about using or implying she uses a break stick to get a sock out of her dogs mouth

Hayley, I have a bull breed, his head is probably around twice the size of a staffs, his jaws arguably twice as powerful - yet when he's got a 'grip' on his pulling toy I don't need to force it out of his mouth, all I need to do is say 'drop'.

Can you not see how you posting stuff like that just infuriates people? By saying you need to force the dog to let go of a sock!!! Find yourself a decent trainer and read, READ the site - you say you've been here two years but what have you actually learnt?

Stop and THINK about what you post and how you post it - take time to articulate your thoughts and be wary of how you are representing your breed AND yourself. Make quality posts, and put them across maturely and people may start taking you more seriously.

Same goes to anyone else who posts using silly 'txt tlk' in serious discussions, or just spouts out 'chav-talk' without proplery thinking about what they are actually saying.

Gosh this has moved on a bit.
I'd just like to say that it doesn't seem to be Hayley that is banging on about break sticks to be fair to her on this thread...other people keep going back to he posts on a previous thread, which I don't think is helping this thread.

Sal...fantastic posts and you have again confirmed wht a responsible owner I already thought you were...well done you.

Mini...I think you are fantastic but I have to disagree with you on this. It is vital that owners know and recognise what their breeds were bred for and therefore what they are able/capable of doing and what instincts may kick in at any point. No one is crticising the bull breeds here...not one person has criticised them, the only thing being said is that they can be dog aggressive and when they fight they mean business. YES everyone knows any dog can be dog aggressive and fight to the death, the point is, 'fighting breed' owners (for want of a better term) have to be aware that their breed is more prone to be wary of other dogs (NOT PEOPLE) and that when they fight, their physical make up and their instinctive behaviours are such that they can inflict more damage more quickly and more readily than sone. NOT a criticism and I think to brush that under the carpet is actually more damging for those breeds in the current climate...to acknowledge it and say 'this is how best to deal with it' is surely the most responsible thing to do and to educate new and current owners...just as Sal does. It's not a criticism...just like it isn't a criticism that labs have a tendency to adore their stomachs and chew more than most....just something to be aware of.It's all part and parcel of researching your breed and responsible ownership.
I have not seen one post on here that actually is a criticism of these breeds.
The arguments seem to be about whether to acknowledge the fact (IMO) that 'fighting breeds' can have an instinctive behaviour kick in and owners should be aware of it...it's an important point to acknowledge and then move on from, by arguing over whther it should even be mentioned, it's becoming more of an issue than it should be. IMO.
*Breathes*

Ramble if you read my post above you will see I say..
..I for one am not seeking to brush anything under the carpet . However I still do not think we should focus on the aggressive tendencies of one breed when all breeds in certain circumstances have the potential to be aggressive to wards dogs/humans/both.

I have seen 2 dogs fight to the death and they did not belong to a bull breed they were terriers . This was a one off incident and was the result of a bitch in season , do we need to allert all terrier owners? No not particularly but I think all dog owners should be aware it can happen.

the good and bad points in any breed should be made available to possible owners.
if 2 dogs are intent on fighing it out they will regardless of the breed.
but with the same view if you knew your dog and its history as well as you should you should be able to avoid a possible fight or the need for breaking sticks to be used.
haley has some strong views about her breed like we all do just at times it doesn't come out right.

azz would you like to get your facts right? or read what you want to?
I said this

as dawn said they prise the dogs jaws apart as they have such a strong tight jaw where its impossible to open without the sticks!
Mine do it to socks lol, i cannot open their jaws when they have a sock they wont drop!

I have never tried to use a breaking stick on my dogs when they take a firm grip on a sock, i said that they grip very tightly on them and the point being was by hand i cannot open their jaws even when on a sock! SO really read the post well please!

Sara you are not my ideal dog owner either, you had a stafford that bit a kid and didnt get pts, you had a aussie cattle dog when many told you not to and you got rid of it because you couldnt cope! i have never ever done anything like that, my dogs have never bitten anyone!

I know all breeds fight minihaha, but this is a thread about fighting dogs, so i related it to them! At the end of the day breaking sticks are my choice, i hope i wont have to use them, but if i do then i know it will break the fighting up quickly and safely!