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24-11-2010, 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by Tass 
In this case rehoming the dog per se would not change its behaviour to other dogs, which is where the problem is.
As I understand it this is not a cohabiting interaction problem. In terms of doing something about it, surely you need to know what you are looking at resolving before you can effectively do so?
E.g is this dog behaving in this way because it is over confident and has a high tolerance of physical correction from the other dogs, or is it under confident and trying harder to appease in face of increasing correction?
Aside from any other consideration this motivation would have an immense impact on what would be perceived by that dog to be positively or negatively reinforcing, hence the need to analysis/assess the situation accurately.
i hadn't recalled/read all of the thread (I think this thread was going a little while ago, so I've forgotten much of it) but on the face of it, I do think that if a dog is suffering mentally or physically (ie if it is shown/known to be so) then something should be done, which may include rehoming (to, probably, be the only dog). I wasn't commenting on a specific dog or situation, but speaking in general
It may be that the dog is not suffering physically or mentally, and that of course is a completely different kettle of fish
Wys
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24-11-2010, 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
...I had a discussion several years ago now with a trainer about his concpet of passive dominance, The idea was a dog would dominate or control a situation by acting in a passive or submissive way.
The example given was a dog doing heel work in class who would stop wanting to co operate and demonstrate this by stopping and rolling on its back instead of lunging/pulling/biting the lead ect.
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Was the training done in a positive way?
What equipment was being used?
You do sometimes see this kind of thing yes, but I'd want to look hard at this, and would consider medical, (hip, etc) and other problems (stress, etc) before assuming the dog was "not wanting to co-operate".
Understanding how to motivate usually prevents or stops any kind of "non co-operation" easily.
Wys
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24-11-2010, 08:37 AM
OTOH I have seen goldies in particular use the rolling over---again probably because it works. But that is what 'dominance' is in any given situation.
rune
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24-11-2010, 02:52 PM
I hate people using stubborn / dom whatever for a dog not wanting to do something
As an inteligent species I see it as totaly natural for a dog to have needs wants demands and preferences
It show inteligence to try a strategy and if it works to use it again
I dont like to use the word dominate here as this brings up negative things that need 'corrected' by most people
Yes of course if you 'give in' to things then your dog can be a demanding pita, thats where us as the smarter species has to teach the dogs different things
or figure out the reasoning behind it
FOr example many dogs learn if someone is eating and they want some then stairing at the person can sometimes get some food, dogs can be v patient when they think they get something so if this only happens 1 times out of 10 then it is worth the risk of sitting stairing 10 times when people eat
Is he trying to dominate you? Or does he just fancy something to eat and between the two of you ou have accidently trained this behaviour
You could get round this by instead never rewarding the dog for sitting stairing but give them some food sometimes when they go away and lie down, then the dog will beg for food by lying in a corner ignoring you
As for dominating you by not wanting to walk to heel
Why be in a battle? There are a reason for it
may be medical - so get that checked out - may be the process of walking to heel is stressful because the dog does not really understand what is wanted and is sensitive to the handler getting stressed
may be it is just no fun, may be (like me) a clumsy handler who has trod on paws in the past so they are remembering a pain in the position
After a medical check I would try and teach it a different and more fun way (if it is that important)
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24-11-2010, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
Sorry, I know it is a really old thread now
I hate people using stubborn / dom whatever for a dog not wanting to do something
As an inteligent species I see it as totaly natural for a dog to have needs wants demands and preferences
It show inteligence to try a strategy and if it works to use it again
I dont like to use the word dominate here as this brings up negative things that need 'corrected' by most people
Yes of course if you 'give in' to things then your dog can be a demanding pita, thats where us as the smarter species has to teach the dogs different things
or figure out the reasoning behind it
FOr example many dogs learn if someone is eating and they want some then stairing at the person can sometimes get some food, dogs can be v patient when they think they get something so if this only happens 1 times out of 10 then it is worth the risk of sitting stairing 10 times when people eat
Is he trying to dominate you? Or does he just fancy something to eat and between the two of you ou have accidently trained this behaviour
You could get round this by instead never rewarding the dog for sitting stairing but give them some food sometimes when they go away and lie down, then the dog will beg for food by lying in a corner ignoring you
As for dominating you by not wanting to walk to heel
Why be in a battle? There are a reason for it
may be medical - so get that checked out - may be the process of walking to heel is stressful because the dog does not really understand what is wanted and is sensitive to the handler getting stressed
may be it is just no fun, may be (like me) a clumsy handler who has trod on paws in the past so they are remembering a pain in the position
After a medical check I would try and teach it a different and more fun way (if it is that important)
Often this "mode" in pet dogs is taught in the first days of the puppy going out into the world. Puppy is scared, understandably, owners uses food to lure dog forward, dog learns if I stop still, I get food. Some dogs develop this into lying down and being floppy mode.
I was once saw a retriever who hated the car for whatever reason. He had adopted the lying down and not doing it mode. He then began using that in lots of different situation, being called into the house, being got off the bed, being taken to the vets,... Not much fun.
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24-11-2010, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by k9paw
What would happen if another puppy or dog(or human even) went to the young staffie and started displaying the same behaviour, would it change what the staffie is doing? Have been reading this thread with interest and has got me thinking(probably not the best idea), don't mind if any one thinks is daft question
Just tell me to shut up
and one which I dont know the answer to, but I will endevour to find another dog of equal enthusiastic lipping grovelling intensity and find out. Thank you for the idea
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24-11-2010, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
[/B]
I've not followed the full thread, but IMO if any dog is suffering either physically or mentally, something should be done about it and that dog perhaps found a new home
This should be done regardless of any theories or views IMO
Wys
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These types of dogs in my experience are hugely sociable animals, I do not believe that living alone is necessarily the kindest answer for such a dog.
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