Thanx Florence! We always get between Ben and any other dog when passing - Ben will pounce on any male dog that he thinks is fighting above its weight. His pet hate is when dogs are being called by their owners and they are ignoring them!! Which is very ironic and frankly a damn cheek when one considers how appalling his recall used to be!

The funniest thing is my daughter's chihuahua, Gucci. He is a little alpha male and Ben concurs to him every time. gucci only has to growl at Ben and Ben backs right off - it is highly amusing compared with what his capabilities are.

Bella's 'pièce de résistance' is her unfailing response to 'getyerleadon'. Stops dead and waits with her little pointy head hung down til you've clipped it back on.

But BOY does she expect a lot of PRAISE for it every time lol! 'who's a clever girl then' doesn't quite cover it as she prances off!

And it's the single thing she does that attracts the most praise from other dog owners (whatever's going on at the time). I can't help feeling proud of her but ... it does make me laugh at the same time.

If that's Bella in your avatar, she is absolutely gorgeous and sweet and looks very similar to Gucci. She sounds like him in character too. I bet you are proud of her - although Gucci is my daughter's dog, he was raised and trained by us because she was living back here when she got him. He is as a consequence well socialised and an amenable, well balanced little chap. Diesel, her long-haired male, is a horrible, snappy, unsocialised little git because he did not have the same upbringing - he is very sweet, and I am hoping to be able to do something with him as daughter is due to give birth on 26th December and Granny and Grandpa will be having Diesel and Gucci to stay - so a good opportunity to do some socialising and training work with him.

Yes that's her Gnasher. And she is a 'typical' mini pinscher.

But I am lucky in that I live alone with her and am home all the time so had all the time in the world to devote to the problems of minpins loving two things more than anything else in the world .... BARKING AND BITING lol!

Only took about a year to cure her of those two plus the important ones of walking by me, STOPPING when told to, coming BACK when told to. That's about it really - don't need her to do anything else for us to rub along together happily and safely. I have occasionally taught her 'tricks' for amusement - sit, beg, woddever. But have no practical use for them.

She is the most independent, ARSY, little dog I've ever owned and true to the breed description of the 'Tyrants of the miniature dog world' but hey I'm a bit like that too so we are well suited!

She is now Barking at me to take her out for her late pee break!

In my humble opinion, shock collars should be banned, as should prong collars, check chains and any other type of "training aid" which causes pain or distress.
They are a lazy, quick fix method, used by people that can't be bothered to put in the time and effort to train their dogs in a positive and kind manner.
Sorry if my comments offend you Gnasher, but i well remember the thread you started when you first used the e collar on Ben, and the comments that you received, including from myself.

That is what people who sell the shock collar will tell you.
This is incorrect.

It's what is used to sell the collars and make owners feel ok about using them. Because if their dog yelps, they can tell themselves it's only because of surprise.

I had a friend in the US who took her dog to SitMeanSit and they told her this, but she could see immediately that her dog was fearful and anxious. She withdrew her dog from the training at once.

Interestingly, and sadly, I've never once noticed a shock collar trainer be much good at understanding dogs attempting to communicate. They prefer to ignore or just not "see", I think. It's incredibly sad.

They also never seem to recommend vet visits, which again shows lack of knowledge. Many years ago on a pet dog forum, I was able to help an owner with a Dalmatian, the dog was showing aggression problems and someone recommended a shock collar.

I recommended a proper behaviourist plus a vet visit. Turned out the dog had epilepsy (which I suspected from her description). Just imagine if that dog had been subjected to shock collar work.

I used to know someone on the forums who had a bitch who had epilepsy, the bitch was a loving dog in the house but completely changed when taken out. She was told to put an E collar on even though her vet told her not to. The person who told her to put one also said the vet didn't know what he was talking about and had previously put one round the stomach of a Yorkie.

I also know of at least one shock collar person who believes dogs don't experience emotion. Convenient, eh?

This yelping idea, I had one dog who was stoic never yelped in his life no matter what happened to him and a girl who would scream if you touched her collar. So going by the yelping theory we would have electrocuted poor old ben before we got a response and thought we were killing Katie before we even put it on her. Do these people actually know dogs are individuals and don't all react the same way to pain ?