Is there a link where I could see the show dogs that have won working trials? Al l the FTCH I know are exceptional working dogs and I just don't believe a showdog could even come close, I stand ready to be corrected.

In my limited experiance of show dogs, they just do not have the drive to do the job , for too long show dogs have been bred for form and to a lesser degree temprement, that spark to hunt and work had long gone IMO, working dog breeders breed for ability to hunt and energy to do so all day, and are less concerned with form.

This is Carry she was a duel champion..it is a few years ago now admittedly but just to prove they exist...

If you enter into your search engine the terms "dual champion" +dog, "dual champion"+dogs or "dual champion" +(breed) you will find plently of examples, e.g. http://www.englishsetter.com/show.ph...og&id=4&type=4

Show labradors are so heavy set these days, i doubt they could clear a 6ft fence like the majority of working labs have to on shoots....

I applaud the concept of dual champions since the interpretation of the standard remains close to what the dog was originally used for, to work, and I think it should be encouraged. I have a friend with a Flatcoat which became a Show Champion at a young age, she is now learning how to train him for field trial work and is doing well at that too, her aim is to make him a "full champion".
My big concern over the breed standards is when interpretation leads to finding loopholes and developing a breed along a particular trait which not only renders it unfit for any traditional/working purpose, but brings in health problems too..... thinking of Bassets and Bulldogs but they are not alone... I question the morals of this "development".

Gill

No labs so far

I would really love to see who can make it work. We have right now a mayor debate about this in DK about this.

If anyone knows about dual labs and can back it up I would love to hear about it

That I am afraid is human nature for you and there is no way you can stop those who wish breeding to suit their own ends, only to look at the large number of designer breeds about now days to see where money is concerned the concern for the welfare of dogs goes out of the window, another reason for having a blueprint for dogs even if there is not way of forcing people to adhere to it, without it we would all be doing our own thing. We still have laws even though there are those who disobey but we do not think that a good reason to have a free for all.

amts - just Google Labrador+"dual champion" Lots of them it would seem

E.g. http://www.blackboykennels.com.au/

*No labs so far*

Here you are amts

http://www.dolphingham.com/inglese/work.htm

His dogs are from English lines. Carpenny has a f.ch. I think?

Thanks SB
Havent googled yet - will do when I have more time. This is supposed to be a short break from work but can end up with me not getting anymore done

But I looked at your link and one thing striked me:
Grand Champion Blackboy Cream Crakka was awarded:-
AW & GM Nash Shield (Top Show Dog or Bitch)
Wilnora Show Trophy (Top Show Dog)
The LRC of WA Championship Show Cup
Maralgo Tampigo Trophy (Show and Retrieving)
Novice Retrieving Shield
Novice means beginner right?

To take a beginners test does not prove the dog can work. The beginners test are heelwork on/off lead, a few easy retrieves and testing if the dog is afraid for gun sounds