Ramble, well hopefully with all the to-ing and fro-ing it's now abundantly clear what resulted in the government (or was it DEFRA) deciding that there simply wasn't enough evidence to conclude that the collars were dangerous or cruel.

Yes, I'm sure many (although not all) of those that claim they are cruel are basing this on experience or observation. As you say, why would they lie? But by the same token those that claim they aren't cruel, improve the quality of life of many dogs and save lives are no doubt basing this on experience or observation too. Why would they lie any more than the other group? Hopefully the scientific study that's currently underway will help clear things up for dog owners that are struggling to find hard facts amongst all the emotive scaremongering (from both sides).

I'm still considering using an e-collar on my dogs. As I've said, I'm open minded about it - largely because I've seen the statement released by the government. Not as you say because they claim the collars are safe (they don't claim that). But because they say there is no evidence to support the claims that they are cruel, and because they say that opinion was split 50/50 amongst the large cross-section of experts that they consulted.

I tend to believe (based upon anecdotal evidence) that these e-fences and e-collars get great results for some people with some dogs. I also tend to believe what wysiwyg says about problems occurring with other dogs. There's a good chance that these devices could work well with my dogs and if so their quality of life would be improved immensely. I'm not prepared to try them right now as there just isn't enough information available to help me figure out if and how they can be used safely. But if the current study provides information that helps me to proceed safely, or if I come across someone that I can trust that is well informed and demonstrates to me that they are able to assess my dogs accurately then I'm definitely open to trying it. I love my dogs and want the best for them.

Why? have you had a bad experiance using one?

Stories i have heard, there is no standards they 'have' to abide by. Not only that i wouldnt want to risk my dog biting anyone.
ATD x

Sorry, if my gist of this topic is not correct,

But you want to use a e/fence for your dog to keep it off the lawn while it is outside unattended during the day!!

Your parents refuse to put up a fence to do the job.

Is the dog not allowed on the lawn at all

Sorry, if I sound dense but why not just fence off a small area of lawn for the dog to go on!!! and dont leave him outside on his own!!

what sort of cost is involved with these types of e-fences, how much upkeep are they?

ADT, you may find its going to cost a fair bit, in that case maybe a small secure run and kennel in the area they are allowed on?

dont appologise, this post is a bit all over the place lol. The lawn at present is a mud bath, i sink inches when i walk on it, the dogs are turing up the grass. I want to keep the dogs off the grass during winter. A neighbour suggested the electic/vibrate collar/fence. I wouldnt leave them out when there is no one in the house, quiet often my sister is in during the day. My 1st reaction was they were crule but i dont or didnt have any hard evidence.
ATD x

personally, i think you should just keep them in if you arent going to be out with them.

whether or not he wants to be outside, i think it would be much nicer to keep him in and free from pain, than let him out where he will be getting shocked... it might seem cruel to keep him in but not as cruel as an electric fence...

Thats a good point- I understand that you want your dog to be happy, but if its winter and he is not going to be supervised outside and he gets plenty of exercise otherwise- I don't really get why it is such an issue for him to put up with the winter and stay in a bit more- I have to and I hate the winter!!

Stories, stories- are not always the whole story!!
I know plenty of very trustworthy and responsible dog sitters and walkers. if you spend the time to seek out one that does not have to advertise due to their good reputation doing that for them. (It is also a very good way of putting money into the economy IMO )

Maybe maybe not, but I would prefer not to take the risk. Mine can be a bit funny with some strangers coming into the house, they are very protective
ATD x

Its good in that case that you are responsible and want to protect both others and your dogs.
However IMO any dog walker/ sitter worth their salt should know how to handle all manner of dogs- otherwise they deserve to get eaten up!!

Also, if your dogs are protective, would having them outside all day not provoke them to upset the neighbors or passers by- or would the garden set up eliminate this issue?
Someone has already mentioned dogs running through the barrier in the heat of the moment- which could happen and be disastrous if your dogs have tendency for aggression....
As said in my earlier posts i have seen this type of fence used successfully- but all cases i saw involved very laid back animals that were not fussed with chasing prey or people!!