Ben, you must accept surely that I know my dogs better than anyone else? Unless you have had dealings with "northern breeds" and mixes thereof, you will not understand how intelligent and different they are. You also know me, you know how bloody besotted I am with my dogs, they are my life, I would NEVER do anything to hurt them. If I truly thought that Ben was being permanently, or even semi permanently harmed or damaged in any way by being vibrated by an e collar (remember, so far, no more stims, they are a thing of the past), then I would personally throw the collar in the fire. I am just so frustrated that I am unable to put into words the miracle that I see before my eyes. I swear on my dead mother-in-law and father-in-laws lives, who I loved dearly, that Ben's salvation - at least thus far (I am the first to agree that we are still talking about early days here) - lies in what effectively is now a vibration collar. I hope we never need to zap him again, and that the pure vibration reminds him of what is wanted.

We have had Ben since June and I cannot believe what we have achieved in that short time. Again you will just have to believe me when I say that many people would have really struggled to be able to cope with him at all, let alone get him to the stage where we have. He is his father's son, and without the knowledge that I gained through living with his father for 10 years, I can honestly say I would not have been able to begin to cope with Ben - but Ben is a watered down version of his father, as I keep telling him!! He can't and hasn't dished out anything that his father didn't or hadn't, so we are one step ahead of him. The one thing we needed to do, and that we failed on, was to stop him running off. His father, God bless him, was never obedient, but he NEVER ran off like Ben did. He was disobedient, and his recall was awful, but he did not run off like Ben.

I am sorry that we had to resort to using an e collar, but I do not regret that we did and have. If and when I do, I shall say so, but thus far I have no regrets. But, as I say, it is early days, and I am certainly not going to be complacent.

I am sorry but you are totaly wrong here
Current is the electrons being moved between the two points
voltage is the amount of force avaliable to move those electrons
their values related to each other are determined by the resistance they are having to move tru

The voltage = the current times the resistance

The voltage is set by how much of the power from the battery is let into the system (controled by the dial)

so if you are just turning the dial up and nothing else is changing so the resistance isnt changing then you are increasing the current

and in humans the resistance of the skin can vary from 100000 Ohms (reisitance) to 1000 Ohms - so you do the maths to what effect that will have on the 'killing' current

No not at all. My dogs are not very interested in titbits, toys or clickers.

And what's with the weekend dog owner? My husband is with our dogs 24/7. I really apologise for the fact that I now have to go out to work, whereas before I too was self-employed working from home.

You really are the lowest of low sniping at me like that. Through no fault of my own, my life had to take a dramatic turn, but NEVER NEVER NEVER have my dogs past or present EVER suffered in any way.

You really have cut deep with that one.

Gnasher - You have a DOG
Yes there are differences in breeds but people can train horses, goldfish, apes, wolves, lions and killer whales - I seriously doubt that your dog is more challanging than all of these put together
You had your 'miricale' cure because it hurt, he was scared, the hurt went away
That is all

Sorry, I don't understand a word you are saying!! I shall have to print this out and run it past OH, he's the clever clogs not me.

I am not being deliberately obtuse, I just do not understand what you're saying!

dont be so dramatic
training is an everyday thing not just at weekends is what i was referring to..like you have said yourself you only trained at weekends and wondered why nothing works.

Sorry, you just are not listening. Yes of course I have a dog, but you can ask any Mal or Husky owner, pedigree northern breeds, they are very different. They are very challenging. Most mal and husky breeders say you cannot let them off the lead, I don't actually agree with this, but they are acknowledging that their chosen breed are very independent and highly intelligent. I would be the first to say that my boys are pretty well up to scratch with me, and possibly even 1 or 2 steps ahead of me - which probably isn't difficult, because I am no Einstein - but they are certainly more intelligent than the average dog.

Ben is not scared, I don't know how I convey this to you, but believe me, he is not scared

What dont I understand? I said 12 seconds was a long time to inflict pain and you said - yes you could inflict pain for 12 seconds (I never said you had done that)...........so what am I not understanding??

I am not being dramatic at all, that is always everyone's answer isn't it. I am not going to go into the details of why you have upset me in public, but you know.

How the flying f do you expect me to train my dogs when I am working my socks off 30 miles away from where I live? I go out to work, OH is semi retired working from home and his job is to look after the dogs. He does his best, but unlike you who is obviously perfect, he is not. He spends on average 4 hours a day walking the dogs, I personally think this is pretty good, but unfortunately he cannot then take a further hour or two to train Ben. As you rightly say, training is something that should be done continuously as part of the daily walking, and that is exactly what he does, and what I do at weekends. But you should know, having a CWD, who presumably you let off the lead, that the hardest thing to do is to train a good reliable recall.

I am sorry that I don't come up to your exacting standards, I doubt anyone would be able to