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Emma
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30-12-2009, 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
I thought the EEC had banned imports of fur from China?
BTW anyone who thinks a petition will influence the Chinese Gvt. is in for a disappointment.
Economic pressure might have some effect. I try to avoid buying anything from China.

Re. the thrill of hunting. I suggest you try draghunting. All the fun without the killing.
No I don't think this will change the Chinese Govt but I can at least express my disgust at the way they do things, they are a force to themselves and no matter what others (incl, other govts try to express to them of things that are unacceptable) but if I can add my name to a petition then it is at least one way to say I dont like what they do.
If they ban fur coming into the countries then the market is reduced for them so the amount of animals that suffer are lessened. So China may not change its views but others can ban it and then it has the above effect
lozzibear
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30-12-2009, 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
YES !! Because that way we may all want to do something more positive about the barbarity than just cry, wring our hands and have a few sleepless nights
but most of us know what goes on without the need to watch the video (and i have seen videos like this so i know what they are like) and can do things positive. just coz you watch it doesnt mean you will do anything about it!

Because as Azz said, by watching it we will become even more appalled and frustrated ... and thus take some positive action. Signing the petition is good, but it is not enough
oh, and simply watching it is going to bring about so much good! there is nothing more you can do by watching than not, as long as people are aware of what is in it!

I'm not trying to preach, just trying ... and obviously failing ... to make all of us animal lovers take positive action over and above signing the petition, that's all
well, you are preaching. watching a sick video like that does not make someone an animal lover, and to think that is ridiculous!

Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
gnasher the people you are raging against are the wrong ones. these are people who do go that extra mile. who do more than sit passively and wonder what they could have done. the act of getting off your backside to visit rescue centers to find a dog who desperately needs a home rather than choosing a puppy from a BYB and supporting that dreadful trade, is one of an animal lover. or to take on an animal who others would not even attempt too. let alone the work, effort and heartache that goes into caring for a rescued animal, especially a sick one, this too takes commitment and love for creatures that are so helpless at times.

really you should be targeting the ignorant. taking it to the streets or spreading the word on networking sites to people who may be oblivious to this.

nearly everyone on this thread has seen some form of torture relating to animal skinning and those that haven't are intelligent enough to imagine what takes place.

i admire your passion and desire to see this cruelty end, but you can't bully people into doing something.
excellent post! gnasher is preaching to the wrong people, and it really isnt fair what she is saying. we arent animal lovers coz we wont watch a sick video, its ridiculous. i love animals and hate all cruelty that happens. i might not do a whole lot, but i will always get my dogs from rescues (as the 2 i have had, have both come from), i dont like hunting and will never do it (unless it was a life or death situation and even though i dont know if i could do it...), i hate fur and will not wear it... the list could go on... but yet just coz i wont watch that video, im said to not be an animal lover...

Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
Thanks, Azz, for a reasoned view.

Gnasher - what on earth do you think you are doing, trying to goad and coerce people into watching something so appalling? Do you really credit people with so little intelligence that they are unable to form the opinion that something is awful and wrong unless they sit through it? That they are unable to form a view and sign a petition - or do something else - without sitting through every disgusting detail? Personally, I am more than capable and I do not need to be bullied into watching something that I know will leave me traumatised. Each to their own - you might find yourself able to sit through it without lasting damage but do not dare to think that others are like you.
excellent post!

Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Gnasher in another thread you say...

I do consider myself to be a 'fully committed animal lover' and that means I for one do not have 'the blood lust deep within me' . All violence be it to human or animal turns my stomach .
Based on what others have said I have sufficient imagination to know what is in the videos without having to watch them, if this make my spineless well that is fine by me, I prefer to be spineless than to derive a thrill from hunting a live animal.
that is such a good point! she is preaching to us that we arent animal lovers coz we wont watch that, yet she gets a thrill from chasing a terrified animal that has a high risk of being ripped to shreds at the end! what is contained in that video is horrible, and sick. and so is getting a thrill from a fox being chased and killed... how can she preach about us being animal lovers when she makes comments like that...
lilypup
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30-12-2009, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
I thought the EEC had banned imports of fur from China?
BTW anyone who thinks a petition will influence the Chinese Gvt. is in for a disappointment.
Economic pressure might have some effect. I try to avoid buying anything from China.
i watched a programme a couple of years ago where they tested some so-called fake fur scarfs from street traders in london. gsd fur and tabby cat fur were identified when the scarfs were taken away for testing. i would guess that some of these traders happily buy from illegal means and that would no doubt include china. i would also guess that not much has changed in the last 2 years either.
lilypup
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30-12-2009, 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
that is such a good point! she is preaching to us that we arent animal lovers coz we wont watch that, yet she gets a thrill from chasing a terrified animal that has a high risk of being ripped to shreds at the end! what is contained in that video is horrible, and sick. and so is getting a thrill from a fox being chased and killed... how can she preach about us being animal lovers when she makes comments like that...
the saddest thing is there is little difference between skinning a live animal and tearing a fox apart. it still involves an animal being tortured and dying in a violent manner. as an animal lover, how can she think that is ok?
Borderdawn
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30-12-2009, 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
the saddest thing is there is little difference between skinning a live animal and tearing a fox apart. it still involves an animal being tortured and dying in a violent manner. as an animal lover, how can she think that is ok?
Then you include me there too. Have you ever seen a Fox killed by Hounds? if not please do not "think" or "assume" that its tortured, when in FACT its dead in a second, and yes I mean a second. A Fox weights on average 12lbs, a hound weights around 80lbs, that alone should tell you what you need to know. The animals in that video, and yes I watched it when it originally came out, ARE tortured for hours and hours on end.

The saddest thing for me is that you see a likeness at all.

The very fact this still goes on as much today as it did then, should show everyone that a video will not change a Country's culture, as much as we dont like it, it wont change because 10, 20 or 30 million people find it offensive, it works for them, they see no wrong, and they still see the same thing today.
Helena54
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30-12-2009, 01:00 PM
I've slept on it, and decided there is no way I could watch that video, it would haunt me forever and a day, and as somebody else has said, I'm one of those who's intelligent enough to know the content, I've seen it being done to the seals when I made a big mistake watching some programme or other, and then on Sky News they decided to film the cubs being clubbed to death during the hunting season that was enough for me I'm afraid, that still haunts me.

Sadly, having some of us watch that disgusting video aint gonna change the barbaric goings on in that disgusting country, but signing the petition might help, and just because I cannot bring myself to watch the video, doesn't mean I'm not an avid animal lover, I've seen enough in my lifetime I'm afraid . Spoken from somebody who nearly got run over on a dual carraigeway once to rescue a common old pigeon, put it in my jacket and cycle 3 miles to the nearest vets, I think that showed ME how much I really care about everything feathered or on 4 legs and always will, so I don't have to be reminded by watching something that will most certainly having a long lasting effect on me, I have enough nightmares thanks!
lozzibear
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30-12-2009, 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
the saddest thing is there is little difference between skinning a live animal and tearing a fox apart. it still involves an animal being tortured and dying in a violent manner. as an animal lover, how can she think that is ok?
i have no idea how she can think it is ok... and its the way she describes the 'thrill' that really sickens me. how can anyone get a 'thrill' from an animal being terrified and dying!

Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Then you include me there too. Have you ever seen a Fox killed by Hounds? if not please do not "think" or "assume" that its tortured, when in FACT its dead in a second, and yes I mean a second. A Fox weights on average 12lbs, a hound weights around 80lbs, that alone should tell you what you need to know. The animals in that video, and yes I watched it when it originally came out, ARE tortured for hours and hours on end.

The saddest thing for me is that you see a likeness at all.

The very fact this still goes on as much today as it did then, should show everyone that a video will not change a Country's culture, as much as we dont like it, it wont change because 10, 20 or 30 million people find it offensive, it works for them, they see no wrong, and they still see the same thing today.
i have never been to a hunt, but i have read and watched plenty about it. and i do not agree at all that the fox is dead in a second. and something else that should be taken into account is the terror and long run for there life they need to go for. fox hunting is sick! and i wont even say on here what i think of those who condone such suffering!

and people only start making likenesses because gnasher said those of us who couldnt watch it werent animal lovers, yet she gets a thrill from an animal getting chased and killed... bit hypocritical to me.

do you agree those who cant watch it arent animal lovers?
lilypup
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30-12-2009, 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Then you include me there too. Have you ever seen a Fox killed by Hounds? if not please do not "think" or "assume" that its tortured, when in FACT its dead in a second, and yes I mean a second. A Fox weights on average 12lbs, a hound weights around 80lbs, that alone should tell you what you need to know. The animals in that video, and yes I watched it when it originally came out, ARE tortured for hours and hours on end.

The saddest thing for me is that you see a likeness at all.

The very fact this still goes on as much today as it did then, should show everyone that a video will not change a Country's culture, as much as we dont like it, it wont change because 10, 20 or 30 million people find it offensive, it works for them, they see no wrong, and they still see the same thing today.
i have seen foxes killed by hounds and it is not always as quick and humane as you would suggest. to chase an animal to the point of sheer exhaustion while it is experiencing the terror of a pack of dogs hellbent on killing it is not what i see as acceptable in any way shape or form. not to mention the pet cats and other innocent creatures that have got in the way of foxhounds and have also met with a senseless, horrific death. quite often foxes go to ground and are dug out and then torn to shreds. all the while with hysteria being whipped up by humans keen to see the death of an innocent animal. a terrifying and violent death no matter how you like to justify it.

we have gone off topic and i apologise.
lozzibear
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30-12-2009, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
i have seen foxes killed by hounds and it is not always as quick and humane as you would suggest. to chase an animal to the point of sheer exhaustion while it is experiencing the terror of a pack of dogs hellbent on killing it is not what i see as acceptable in any way shape or form. not to mention the pet cats and other innocent creatures that have got in the way of foxhounds and have also met with a senseless, horrific death. quite often foxes go to ground and are dug out and then torn to shreds. all the while with hysteria being whipped up by humans keen to see the death of an innocent animal. a terrifying and violent death no matter how you like to justify it.

we have gone off topic and i apologise.
excellent post! well said, and i agree with every bit of it.
Borderdawn
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30-12-2009, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
i have never been to a hunt, but i have read and watched plenty about it. and i do not agree at all that the fox is dead in a second. and something else that should be taken into account is the terror and long run for there life they need to go for. fox hunting is sick! and i wont even say on here what i think of those who condone such suffering!

and people only start making likenesses because gnasher said those of us who couldnt watch it werent animal lovers, yet she gets a thrill from an animal getting chased and killed... bit hypocritical to me.

do you agree those who cant watch it arent animal lovers?
Of course you dont, you havent seen it, how could you?

I think if you want to look at it, look at it, if you dont, dont! However you could make an informed response if you actually knew what you were talking about, rather than not liking the sound of something. I hated what I was "told" but I watched it when it first came out, and then KNEW I was correct in my thoughts. You do whatever pleases you!
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