ouch!!! personal insults dear are not allowed .

No I have not met your dogs, but its been established on many a post, that your dogs are xbreeds, whether or not they have a tiny bit of wolf in them is debatable.

Calling a dog a x breed in NOT an insulting word, its simply fact...and does not warrant a personal attack back.

A xbred is a dog that is made up of more than one breed, a pure bred is made up ofone breed, I am sure you understand this.

So by bringing my Boxers into this is rather silly, and does not add to your argument.

There are many owners of northern breeds on this forum, and none of them seem to be in the same mindset as you, that they are so independent, you need to use a shock collar on them.

How on earth have we got back to wolves? Oh, of course, we are discussing CM.

Everyone will believe what they want to believe, but it has to be remembered that dogs, cats, dolphins, seals, killer whales, rats and a myriad of other animals, birds and fish have been and are reliably trained without the need for physical aversives. Those who believe that their animals are somehow special and do need physical force - be that a kick, nudge, smack, shock or whatever - are, I'm afraid sadly wrong and I say sadly because it is not the human end of the equation - the one who is making the choices - who is on the receiving end of the pain and discomfort.

I can only say that Nicole Wilde, who is in the US and specialises in what she terms "wolf dogs" does not support CM. She goes for the more reward based methods although she like most good trainers/behaviourists would be setting boundaries or rules or whatever one wishes to call them, to be consistent.

Wys
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It's not just guessing - but good question

If you really study many of his "cases" as an actual behaviourist/trainer (so you are good at understanding dog body language and normal behaviour) you can see something has occurred beforehand. I was suspicious straight away, but could not pin him down on anything.

Later we have information such as the video which showed him getting a so called dog aggressive dog wound up by another before the show (and he was laughing about it) plus the info from various people filtering down now, for example the Shadow incident, the dog was a rescue dog and was not anything like as bad as CM made him on the show, he spent a lot of time getting him to react strongly. I belive the original rescue said he wasn't even aggressive, and they were very upset and took Shadow back after that incident.

Really it makes sense for dramatic TV, if they didn't do this then there would be far less dramatics and extremes on his show.

Wys
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Very good post Brierley

Wys
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This makes very interesting reading, and anyone interested in the rehab of pit bulls or CM or even wolf type dogs (tis written by Nicole Wilde) should take a peek.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/do...-dog-whisperer

A few snippets:

"There’s a new dog show in town courtesy of National Geographic, the same station that broadcasts The Dog Whisperer. It’s called DogTown, and profiles dogs who have been rescued from situations ranging from sad to downright horrific. The dogs are brought to Best Friends Sanctuary in Utah, where they are rehabbed physically and behaviorally by a team of trainers.

The premiere episode of DogTown focused on 22 pit bulls confiscated in the Michael Vick case. Most had been used for fighting, and a few had been used as bait dogs. Between showings of DogTown, Nat Geo aired a new episode of The Dog Whisperer subtitled Dueling Pit Bulls. The difference between the two shows in their approach to behaviour modification was evident....."

"At the Dog Whisperer’s compound, with the owners present, Trinity was muzzled and led to a large pen that contained Cesar’s large, established pack of dogs. These ranged from other pit bulls and large breeds to a pit puppy, a Chihuahua, and other small dogs. There was plenty of growling going on from both sides of the fence before the introduction, but when it was felt that the dogs had calmed down,

Trinity was let in with the pack. She was visibly nervous, and at one point received a collar correction for what I can only assume was growling at another dog (it was difficult to hear). There were no incidents, and Trinity was left there for training. When the owners came to visit, Trinity was loose and unmuzzled with a number of other dogs (about 10, I believe) outside of the enclosure. None of the dogs wore leashes or collars.

A fight broke out between Trinity and another pit bull, and some of the other dogs, also aroused, began fighting. Trinity and the other pit locked on to each other’s jaws. (As it turned out, the two needed five stitches apiece.) A few people (who I believe were associated with the show) jumped in. Trinity’s female owner scooped a small dog off the ground and held it to keep it safe. After a bit of effort, Cesar and another man dislodged the two pit bulls as the horrified owners looked on. (This was accomplished by each man holding a dog and, as Cesar advised, “just waiting” – no breaking sticks involved.)"

"

Hopefully this should also dispel the myth that CM is amazing at controlling his own dogs at his own place, as clearly they are likely to fight under certain circumstances, as any dogs might.

I think what he did to Trinity was appalling. And to her owners. I remember watching some of this episode and I was absolutely disgusted to see his (CMs) behaviour and his ignoring of the owner's worries about her own dog.

Trinity was really sweet and from what I saw practically begged not to have to be with the other dogs.

Wys
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It also has to be remembered that cats, dolphins, seals, killer whales, rats and many other trained animals, are not trained to the same standards as dogs.
You'll never see those animals out in public(except cats and probably rats), needing to be calm, be nice to everyone and everything they meet and many other requirements.
Trained bears many times are kept in their cages or transport vehicles with their handlers, not walked on a 6ft leash in a busy store.

Not to mention many of those animals were chosen based on their temperaments. A killer whale or a bear with a serious, less calm personality, wouldn't be chosen to be trained because it'd be too dangerous.
Dogs however aren't blessed with being hand chosen correctly for every person, or bred correctly. That's why different methods should be considered to help every dog. I don't believe there is one way to help every dog, I believe all methods have their place.

You are right in so far as there are no single correct way of training dogs, however there is one way that should never be used in training & that is one based on fear, bullying, physically harsh & pain & unfortunately this is the very way used by CM

Yes that is true - but it is also true that dogs have for hundreds if not thousands of years been selectivly bred to be able to be around humans. Bears and killer whales are wild animals in captivity - dogs are not
There are many different methods to train all animals - and yes of course punishments can work - but they also cause great amounts of (negative) stress to the animals (and the owner) so it is cruel to choose that method when there are alternatives

wys - here is the clip of the pits fighting - I saw it a while back but didnt know the back story


and sadly if you watch to the end again you will see how he fails this dog and its loving owners - he dosent 'fix' her he just gives the owners a new dog!

Good heavens.