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zero
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22-03-2007, 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva View Post
my point is a dogs digestion can't cope with all the bacteria in a raw meat diet so the bacteria that they can't get rid of builds up in the gut and intestine, when the dog picks up a nasty bug it gives the bacteria sommit to feed on so makes it more difficult to treat the infection and takes longer to get rid of it. Unless your actually out killing your dogs food yourself the truth is you don't really know for sure that what your giving is fresh.
How much would it cost to get the meat analysed ?
course they can deal with the bacteria in fresh meat. The best way to tell if the meat is really fresh is - would you eat it cooked for yourself. You can source fresh meat for human consumption from butchers wholesalers etc...That's where ours come from. You can seriously smell it is just fresh and good when we get it delivered by them.

What about dry dog food dogs who can't fully digest all the fillers they put in it and have it sat fermenting in the gut and intestines for to long thus creating an awful lot of bacteria?? Does your vet not think that commercial fed dogs don't have an equall amount of or perhaps more bacteria??

I'm not gonna try changing minds cuz either way I know your dogs will be very well taken care of but although this bout of diarreoh etc was unfortunate it was just one of those things the same as when Keena got real sick when fed on dry dog food. Your other dog was very lucky not to have had any case of sickness similar but I think it is more coincidence rather than actual fact.

NI can have a sensitive tummy so you may notice more upsets than in some other breeds anyway but the thing is all of my dogs upsets were on commercial dog food so you might not win by even sticking to that from now on to be honest.

It would be great if you knew what exactly the dogs had been fed that week of illness and where it came from but that might be hard unless you keep note. (If even it was food) You probably never will be able to pin point the problem now. That's why a breif food diary is good. If you feel safer feeding 'dog food' that's fine but it isn't because a raw diet is bad or has been bad for your boys it will be just what you feel more comfortable with. I kinda wish you could be persuaded otherwise but can see you have made up your mind and understand that is your decision
fluffybunnyfeet
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22-03-2007, 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by myschievous View Post
course they can deal with the bacteria in fresh meat. The best way to tell if the meat is really fresh is - would you eat it cooked for yourself. You can source fresh meat for human consumption from butchers wholesalers etc...That's where ours come from. You can seriously smell it is just fresh and good when we get it delivered by them.
Thats the way to feed a raw diet, but many feed food that you would not even consider eating raw yourself. You could eat a steak raw and have no ill effects whatsoever, try that with a minced up chicken carcase and see what happens.

Dogs have the gut to deal with most parasites and bacteria, but you have to ask yourself "is really worth the risk"?

We feed kennel mince throughly boiled and nuked with complete foods and cereals. Dogs look good, are fit and healthy. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
zero
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22-03-2007, 11:08 AM
Originally Posted by fluffybunnyfeet View Post
Thats the way to feed a raw diet, but many feed food that you would not even consider eating raw yourself. You could eat a steak raw and have no ill effects whatsoever, try that with a minced up chicken carcase and see what happens.

Dogs have the gut to deal with most parasites and bacteria, but you have to ask yourself "is really worth the risk"?

We feed kennel mince throughly boiled and nuked with complete foods and cereals. Dogs look good, are fit and healthy. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Nothing wrong with a chicken carcuss so long it's from a reputable supplier.

But yes some people do source the food without paying too much attention to it's quality. Not that I am saying this has been the case at all here.

Is it worth the risk?? Is anything!? but yeah I'm happy feeding them raw they get all the vitamins and minerals and enzymes that they need that are often destroyed in 'nuked' food.

They are dogs eating a diet appropriate to dogs I'm happy.

And until someone can prove to me that there is more bacteria in the gut of a raw fed dog than there is in a dog fed in any other way and that it is indeed harmful, I will continue to be happy

Your right, if it aint broke don't fix it! Nothing broke here
zero
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22-03-2007, 11:13 AM
Keena dug up a peice of manky raw hide that she must have burried over a year ago. It was black and from what I could catch a glimpse of, slimy too, she ran around and played with it, when I noticed I went out to her she bolted it down! Now if you wanna talk about bacteria

You can't stop dogs from being dogs so I really don't see the harm feeding them fresh raw meat.
fluffybunnyfeet
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22-03-2007, 11:29 AM
Originally Posted by myschievous View Post
Keena dug up a peice of manky raw hide that she must have burried over a year ago. It was black and from what I could catch a glimpse of, slimy too, she ran around and played with it, when I noticed I went out to her she bolted it down! Now if you wanna talk about bacteria

You can't stop dogs from being dogs so I really don't see the harm feeding them fresh raw meat.
Quite right, ours like to munch on snails which are relatively harmless although the vet said they can carry heartworm.

The key is fresh, but add to that properly butchered and processed as you would expect meat to be fit for human consumption, but even then you can never be absolutely sure they have done their job and not missed for example tapeworm larvae.

Its inevitable that dogs will eat things that are not good for them, but you as the owner are in the driving seat and will feed them what you consider is best for them.

Nothing wrong with a natural raw diet as long as you take all the precautions including those to protect your family against unwanted illness, after all said and done, carnivores don't cook their food in the wild and sometimes have to resort to whats available.

As regard to to goodness in raw diets, its really not that difficult to ensure your dog has all it needs from alternative sources with the exception that if you dog has a condition such as EPI, it may require raw pancreas or such to treat the illness, but even then there are treatments available that do not involve raw diet, but you have to have deep pockets!
inkliveeva
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22-03-2007, 11:32 AM
Dogs are Omnivores
zero
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22-03-2007, 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva View Post
Dogs are Omnivores
Well the jury is always out on that one. To me they are carnivors, they are not omnivors in the same way that we are for instance. But obviously fruit and veg doesn't harm them so long as it isn't fed in vast quantities.

Turn a dog wild even in this country and what will it eat? Rabbits and such like and if they are lucky to be around them deer etc. Yeah they get the stomach contents but so many studies have been done to show that wild dogs and wolves if you like shake out the contents. I've seen my own do it with whole rabbit etc.

Whatever you like though - but my own dogs have been on no amount of veg etc since we started the diet and have done very well so fruit n veg clearly is not a necessity and does not make any real difference to the diet. Also to add, too much fruit n veg gives my dogs an upset stomach.
fluffybunnyfeet
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22-03-2007, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva View Post
Dogs are Omnivores
Lol

Really?
zero
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22-03-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by fluffybunnyfeet View Post
Quite right, ours like to munch on snails which are relatively harmless although the vet said they can carry heartworm.

The key is fresh, but add to that properly butchered and processed as you would expect meat to be fit for human consumption, but even then you can never be absolutely sure they have done their job and not missed for example tapeworm larvae.
like i said i'm not here to change minds

I haven't wormed my dogs since starting raw feeding either and have seen zero evidence of worms and if people are worried I'm sure regular worming would be sufficient as dogs carry worms with or without raw feeding.

You could go round in circles all day long with the good and bad points. I just don't agree with the why take the risk approach is all. I take the risk because my dogs were having the constant runs before we switched so it's not really a risk for us when it has solved our problem is it!
Shona
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22-03-2007, 11:49 AM
[quote=myschievous;959795]

Is it worth the risk?? Is anything!? but yeah I'm happy feeding them raw they get all the vitamins and minerals and enzymes that they need that are often destroyed in 'nuked' food.

It does not have to be nuked food a gentle simmer will suffice, I only nuk my OH food

the rotts eat veg, If I dont give them it they often eat grass, and not to be sick they graze like cattle munching on grass, the other thing alot of dogs do to obtain more easy to digest greens is eat the poo of herbivours, ie, horses, rabbits sheep and cattle, apparently there are bacteria in the poo of these animals that are good for the dogs gut, kinda like a yakult (sp) drink for dogs, yummy,
some dogs will eat horse poo after a course of anti biotics, due to the anit-biotics killing not just infection it was given for but also some of the natural gut flora, yum,
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