Yeah as some sort of justification. "Historically dog training was never kind, so I'm just being HISTORICAL in my training by still using unkind methods! Only now I get to use ELECTRICITY! YAY MEEEEE!!!"

Because people were idiots and unkind before modern times does not mean that we still should be idiots and unkind.

Given that any idiot (even those that don't know much about OC principles) knows that the timing of the reinforcer/punisher is the crucial element in OC, I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone would think of doing what you suggest (or now seem to be doing).

The dangers of what you are doing with this method would almost guarantee that what the dog learns is NOT what the person delivering the electric shock is trying to teach. In fact it could not be termed "training" in any sense of the word ~ all I can think to call it is deliberate & systematic abuse & cruelty.

So what, I actually could care less about historically. I was simply answering a question.

Fact is we now have e collars and reward based methods and we now live in a time when both are available and seem to be being utilised by many people.

Maybe in 50yrs time we will look back on clickers and think ''wow were we wrong'' who knows, frankly who cares, what matters is now.

Adam

Training example of this. 3 dogs, all poor recall

1st sesisons, Teach each dog about the recall/stim and returning to the owner as indivaduals.

2nd sessions, put the dogs together and practise recall as indivaduals or as whole group with same approach.

Its easy, and it works!

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...up+dogtra&aq=f

As long as the dogs know the command its fine.

Seems to me that with reward based u take forever to train one dog then another and so on.

Adam

Perhaps, but using shocker on a dogs uh... privates to teach sit??? I admit I have used shockers before but only a couple of times & only to deture behaviors that are dangerous to the dog that I was unable to break using normal methods... & I had 2 really good trainers that deal with pure positive methods try & help me to no ovail & I was young at the time & desperate.

Its point of contact training and you don't use the stim on the dogs genitials for sit.

The idea is based around the dog viewing the stim as pressure (like horses) so the dog will naturally move away from presusre.

Examples, top of neck for down, top of hindquaters for sit, side of neck for turn.

Adam

Adam ~ why don't you just buy yourself a little remote controlled toy puppy ~ then, & only then, would your methods work, same as they would with a remote controlled toy car or a model aeroplane ~ but at least then you won't have a living, breathing sentient being to carry out your cruel behaviours on!

Oh grow up Adam ~ if you can't see the flaws & the dangers (even if by OC principles alone & forgetting the pain & feelings of the poor dogs you are shocking), then I really can't be bothered to explain it to you anymore.

I haven't & won't look at your videos because I cannot bear to see dogs getting electrocuted.

When you first started posting on here I really thought you were only using cruel & harsh punishments because you didn't know any better. But the more I read of your posts, the more I realise you aren't in the least bit interested in learning, you aren't in the least bit interested in dog welfare ~ you are only on this forum to promote your evil nasty business for personal financial gain.

I am now putting you on ignore & the only time I'll ever post a reply to your posts again is if I see that you seem to be getting away with promoting your cruel methods because everyone else is so fed up with going round in circles with you.

If there is anyway that Adam can be banned from this forum (without of course compromising Dogsey principles) I, for one, will be very glad to see the back of him.

I agree 100% with this. He's just here to either troll or advertise. I think it's LONG past time for him to be kicked out.

Why would you even THINK of using it on the dogs genitals for ANYTHING????

That is a truly sick mind.

rune