Great posrt, my feelings exactly!

I think puppies should meet as many other puppies,dogs,cats,rabbits as possible when they are tiny. I got my puppy at the same time as some of my friends got puppies. They all played together loads. I think it is very important to keep socialising them though. Some of my friends dogs, though not aggressive, are a bit grumpy now and sometimes bully other dogs. I think this is because, although they got the socialisation right when they were young, they don't take them out enough now to meet other dogs. My dog has been attacked a few times by big dogs and sometimes bolts when a big dog comes charging towards her, but she adores every dog she meets and is never aggressive.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I do have a very close bond with my dog but i think if you have dog from a puppy, the best thing you can do for it is to make sure it can speak 'dog'

Interesting. I used to think like that too. But I'm seeing more and more benefit of our puppy romp sessions. . .

A) the puppies learn manners from trained, sensible, teachers, skilled and experinced in their role - adult dogs.

b) And significantly, owners especially first time owners, learn how puppies play., how noisy and "aggessive" it can be or appear and that this is normal. They are then encouraged to use that same excitement and vigour in their play with their pup , in a tug game.

c) Owners can learn just what is and what isn't "dog aggression" when they see an adult dog reprimand a pup for unruly or unacceptable berhavcour. So many people are scared of snarling, growling, snapping, chasing, simply because they assume it to be terrible "aggression" and think it will end in the tearing apart of the puppy! Instead it ends with the puppy calming down and ceasing poor behaviour nand the adult dog losing interest and going about its bussiness.

d) It gives the chance of puppy owners to see other older puppies "go adolescant" and prepares them for the types of behaviour their puppy might elude to when it too goes adolescant.

e) and VERY significantly, it allows a brilliant teaching opportunity for puppies to learn that "No other human" will be affectionate toward them or feed or play with them, if the puppy approaches them. Only their owner will. (we do not allow petting or stroking or feeding of other peoples puppies during romps). Interestingly in a couple of weeks, most puppies lose interest in the other humans in the romp session and only return to their owners for play or other reward. This is a great life lesson and one that can not easily be managed on the park with so many strangers falling in love with puppies and fussing them for jumping up, or making silly smiley faces at them as they advance toward them.

f), it provides a meeting place for owners with similar aged animals to meet and make friends and discuss puppy challenges.

G) It provides owners with an understanding of just how hard they have to work to compete with other distractions (such as other puppies they where just playing with) and get their puppies attention in play or dog.owner chase and tug games.

That's just my view.

Just my take that's all!

At least with specific puppy socialisation classes, the meetings, interactions, play etc etc are (or should be!) carefully controlled & managed so that puppies learn from other pups & older dogs in a "good" way. I don't mean just positive reinforcement as, of course, other dogs won't just use this, but in a way that doesn't cause harm, injury or fear reactions in the puppies that could have long lasting effects.

The difficulty with not always managing this process carefully & taking your chances that it will just happen while you're out & about with your dog, is that you can't always control the circumstances under which your puppy meets other dogs. This could lead to meeting a potentially aggressive, or over-excitable dog, or the puppy could get injured by accident. Plus you don't always know the other owners & how they will react to your puppy.

But in the "real world" I suspect that most puppies get a bit of both. Owners may well take their puppy to training or socialisation classes but they'll also be taking it for walks to the local park or wherever.

IMO provided that the majority of a pup's encounters are pleasurable, fun & rewarding, then the odd not so good encounter will probably not have a huge effect as the puppy will already have a lot of ingrained learning from the positive encounters. But if there are just a few scary incidents without that background of positive encounters, then this could lead to sensitised, nervous, shy, possibly fear-aggressive dogs in future.

I've done a lot of work in puppy classes and I definitely don't agree with all pups being allowed to be off lead and romp around together. I've seen (in the past at bad classes) too many pups learning to enjoy bullying, and too many pups getting very scared, trying to hide, sometimes being pulled out again by owners or trainers, or chased out by other more confident dogs, and all it leads to is, as adults, them really disliking the presence of other dogs.

I've not read all the thread though sorry, just dipping in to give a comment!

Wys
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Yes I agree with you ~ I've seen the same, but this is why I think puppy socialisation classes are separate things from training classes. Classes that are solely for socialisation should be carefully managed, watched over & controlled so that these scary incidents don't happen or are stopped immediately. The older dogs at these classes will have a known history of behaving well towards the pups & juvenile, energetic bouncy dogs would probably not be allowed to attend.

But training classes are a different matter. This is where owners learn how to train their puppies & these classes may contain a mix of young & older dogs. They are not normally set up specifically for socalisation & the trainers & assistants will not be so closely monitoring the interactions between the dogs. Plus if several dogs come to regard training classes as times when they play & romp around with their friends, the owners will have the devil's own job trying to get their attention in class!!

I help with training classes & we actively discourage the dogs to get into "play" mode with other dogs. All owners & dogs are given their own space to work in, owners are encouraged to keep their dog's attention, & taught how to train their dog. The only time that we allow off lead play time is when we do a session in th local park, then afterwards, if owners want to, & at their own risk, we walk round the park with the dogs off lead. But by that time we know the dogs quite well & we ask the more boisterous dogs to stay on lead whilst the younger & more fragile pups have a play, then we swap them over. It seems to work well this way

I'm afraid I disagree here - I think it is a hugely important part of training that the pups need to learn to come away from play. Pups need to learn (IMO) that play and training are not mutually exclusive - the two are very linked.

I allow some play between pups, that is monitored, then the pups come back - and learn to chill together. Play is never the first thing allowed nor the last - it happens at various times throughout the session. It allows the pups to let of some steam and to learn how to tune back into their owners.

Teaching pups to come away from something as motivating as other puppies is a huge part of training.

I appreciate what you're saying & that could probably work very well if you've only got puppies in the class. But the classes I help with have a mixture of puppies, juveniles & older dogs, so playtime would not always go well.

And on the first session, we need to get to know the dogs & owners first before we allow too much mixing & interacting. In practice, inevitably a few of the puppies want to interact & are fascinated by each other, & when the owners first come into the hall, the puppies will get to meet each other. We also teach a "come away" recall, & we may use another dog or owner as the distraction, so the dogs do learn to come back from distractions. But play & socialisation are not the primary purpose of the classes. If an owner wants to register only for socialisation, then the instructor is happy to suggest others that run specific puppy socialisation classes.