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Dobermonkey
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09-07-2010, 09:27 AM
Any companion show ive been to the prettiest/handsome didnt even involve going round the ring, the judge just looked at faces. My boy has got rossies at open shows but i would still enter companion shows if they were on the door step (apart from the one that is literally on my backdoor step as my friend is judging this year ) as its a day out for him and tires out his little brain.

I would look at the judge before I went down the road of saying who could and who couldnt enter. My friend was showing her young horse last weekend. It had won all its classes at 4 previous shows and has qualified for the national championships. there were rossies to 6th place and under this particular judge he didnt get a look in, last in both classes. no different in dogs. All the top places at a local companion show i went to were taken by people from the local ring craft class and judged by the... wait for it... someone who goes to the ringcraft class, assisted by the guy that runs it.

Its not just the entry fees that the 'charity' are missing out on but what about the people there selling food and the like and maybe stall holders.

Perhaps there could be some classes for kc dogs that have not been placed in any open shows? think that would cover off the alledged issue? but then what happens when you get the companion show pot hunters? classes for kc dogs that havent been placed at a companion show? how do you 'police' that?

To me a show is a show, if you are entering a pedigree class anywhere i would wear trousers and a shirt, and the boy would have his show chain on (primarily due to the fact its the only thing i can hold him in without being dragged around whilst he socialises). no matter how small the show. It doesnt make us professional pot hunters?
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*Lorraine*
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09-07-2010, 09:33 AM
If these are companion shows (being held under KC rules & regs) then I'm sure you can't discriminate. Just as you can't hold breed specific classes.
My Dogs are pets....2 are K.C registered, but the "wrong" colour to be accepted by the K.C.
Trix is a X breed.
All 3 have to stand nicely as it helps show them off to their best advantage, makes it easier for the judge to look at them & stops them playing with other Dogs in the ring (which I see as bad manners)

Personally I hate seeing out of control dogs hauling their owners around the ring....or children dragging pups about & my biggest gripe...Dogs in fancy dress when it's boiling hot ....the Dogs wefare should come 1st, regardless of parentage.

I know loads of people who show at champ level & attend fun shows because they & their Dogs enjoy it.
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border pop
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09-07-2010, 09:37 AM
If KC registered dogs are banned from fun dog show and half the dogs that tip up at these shows are Kc registered, that's half as much money being raised for charity? seems a bit daft to me, after all, that is the reason they are run, to raise money. I have been to two companion shows because they were in my local area. Pedigrees and cross breeds won equally and they had pedigree BIS and none pedigree BIS which made is fairer.
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scorpio
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09-07-2010, 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by weevle21 View Post
Yes but a lot of companion shows have the same rosettes for the pedigree classes as the fun classes so you wouldn't know a rosette was for 'best six legs' rather than best sporting dog.

Anyway, yes its all for the charities but people don't realise they are taking the fun out of it for the others who have the scruffy mongrels and dogs that don't stand to attention and make these people feel uncomfortable like they don't belong even though its a fun show.
It's not about being snobby about not winning, that's not the point, it's that people with 'pets' are put off thinking its more serious than it is
But people buy puppies because they like the lines, or they meet one or both parents...I've never paraded my dogs rosettes to potential puppy owners, if they've asked about winnings I would tell them but it would never enter my head to mention that they won the waggiest tail or prettiest bitch at a fun show.

Why do we make people feel uncomfortable just because we have a groomed and bathed dog? Surely if someone owns a scruffy mongrel it would have been cleaned before entering the show, and if you've ever watched young English Setters at a show, you will see that they very rarely stand still, they are too interested in playing with the other dogs

I still think it is a certain number of people that are put out because they don't do all the winning and don't give a fig about the charities.
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Dobermonkey
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09-07-2010, 10:22 AM
Its not the winning, its the taking part that counts
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Kerryowner
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09-07-2010, 10:33 AM
I'm beginning to think that Weevle21 has been to the same shows as I have ! (except we are a long distance away from each other!).

There is a difference in people with K.C registered pets entering little local dog shows and "pot-hunters" who are "professional" dog showers for want of a better word.
The one we saw where the same person won every class it was obvious that they were used to competing at a higher level as they had proper card number clips and were dressed like they were entering Crufts! There is something wrong when people are booing because they are fed-up with the same person winning each class in my opinion.

Saying that I think sometimes because Parker is a pedigree judges have an inverted snobbery and will place a non-pedigree higher than him, for example we were placed 2nd behind a heinz 57 who was so manic that the owner couldn't walk in a straight line up and down with him-he was on 2 legs most of the time.

The issue is though that you pays your money and you have to put up with the judge's decision. I have been to classes where the judge has awarded a rosette to a JRT that tried to bite her and the class was for most biddable dog! (the child was being handled by a toddler too!). Another example was a terrier winning "best movement" when it went round the ring on 2 legs!

We all need to be sporting-this is why I mentioned that I scrach Parker out of classes he has been entered for if he already has a 1st place. Also be sportsmanlike to the winners-when Parker got his 1st best-in-show at a terrier show I went to shake hands with the best bitch terrier's owner and she walked off in a huff! I like to think that if she had won I would have shaken hands and said "Congratulations"!
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Jackie
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09-07-2010, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by weevle21 View Post
There are a lot of people who have noticed here in Devon that 'Fun' dog shows are being overrun by people with KC dogs who are going into the pedigree classes then also getting top of the pops in the fun classes too.
A local dog show has been set up for next weekend and they are saying if the dogs are KC registered they will not allow them to enter.
The local KC dog people that do the rounds are getting very upset about it but actually i agree.
It's unfair that these people can have their own classes and then enter with us too and then use rosettes for 'waggiest tail' or 'fastest bonio eater' in order to gain a higher price on their pedigree pups.
What do you think?
well I have heard it all know.

Adding to the list of your dogs achievements... CC at this show 1st at that one and oh yes, got the waggiest tail at that fun show... hence will hike up my prices

Originally Posted by Westie_N View Post
How are people going to prove that their dogs aren't KC registered? Even if they are KC registered but aren't really 'breed standard' and are pets only and not show dogs, they could just lie and say they aren't KC registered.

Having said that (in my Simon Cowell tone ), people who have show dogs means that their dogs are probably/obviously going to be KC registered. So, are these the people not going to be allowed to enter the shows?

However, I actually agree with you to an extent - IMO, it doesn't sit comfortably with me that the 'proper' show people enter the pedigree classes in fun shows and, more often than not, expect to win and usually do (no doubt the show people will appear soon and say it's only just for fun for them etc, never to win. ). They say it's for practice etc and it probably is (good practice at that), but they could still enter the classes for practice only and make this clear when registering and also informing the judge of the classes. They could still have fun doing this!

A lot of 'show' people populate the pedigree classes at fun/novelty shows and far too often it's the proper show people who win and those with pet only pedigrees don't. I just don't think it's morally right or fair.

People who have pet only pedigree dogs who can't officially show them for whatever reason can't enter official KC judging shows, so why should show dogs be allowed to compete in their classes?

This isn't sour grapes on my part as I think these shows are great fun and I often win things with my two dogs and have done over the years.

I've been to many a biased 'fun' show where proper show people win all the pedigree classes AND the fun classes as well. Not right, IMO.

When I get my dog (it'll be shown formally as well) I'll still attend these fun shows and the pedigree classes, but only for practice and that point will be made clear upon registering and entering the ring. Obviously I'll still have to pay and that's absolutely fine and the money will hopefully be going to charities and such like, which is great.

I also think think there should be a BIS for the pedigree classes and a BIS for the novelty classes.

I believe everyone should be able to enter and compete in the novelty classes.

I'll still enjoy the days out with my dogs.
I see proper show people are not allowed to have fun with their dogs

Local "fun" shows are an excellent way for a "proper" show person to introduce their young dogs to the show ring, its all experience , and what better way to do that then at a fun day out.

Originally Posted by weevle21 View Post
No I don't mean excluding pedigree dogs at all but what is upsetting the locals round here is the pedigree KC dogs that go up and down the county being deadly serious about their showing. They do complain when they don't win in the fun shows and pedigree ones and you can see people's faces sometimes when their 'pet' dogs are just lazing about the ring having fun and the serious people are making their dogs stand in show dog fashion and not interacting with other dog owners.
That's the thing this local show is trying to exclude as we have seen people walk away and not enter after watching these people.
I don't mind if we don't win as it is just a bit of fun but sometimes these people do take the fun out of it by making it so serious.
you want to be careful your jealousy does not put your fun shows out of businuss.

Did anyone ever stop to think about the loss of revenue you are going to lose, because you are excluding half your entries
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weevle21
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09-07-2010, 10:46 AM
OK so what about when i entered my dog ina fun class and she was frightened of the judge and barked at her backing off.
One of the owners that had a less than well behaved dog piped up 'that dog should be entered in the 'dog the judge would most like to shoot'
You call this fun?
it's not about jealousy and there's no need to get personal. I don't mind if i win or not i always congratulate the winner. 'FUN' dog show remember
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Dobermonkey
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09-07-2010, 10:50 AM
If my boy had done that and someone said the same thing i personally would have laughed
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chaz
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09-07-2010, 11:07 AM
Well Honey and Diesel have only been to one show, and yes there was four different sighthound breeds all of whom you could tell were trained show dogs, there was also a rough collie who was groomed to show perfection, in some of them the show dogs were placed higher then others including handsomist male, where I thought that the border collie next to me looked a lot more handsome then the show dog IMO, but then I'm not a judge but there was only really three classes out of ten where being a show dog might of made you be placed higher, and in one of them no show dogs were placed, but Honey got a forth lol, but the three classes were best condition (I think that the Slauki won this one) handsomist male (show rough collie won this) and prettiest bitch, can't remember who won this one.

On the other side of the coin there was a cross breed there, Chihauhau cross Chinese Crested who I think that the owners expected to win (although this wasn't pointed out till after) the owners had her in a pretty pink t-shirt, and got the camera fixed on the dog as soon as the awards were to be given out (Honey beat this one too, so no sour grapes there ) I also saw one person get annoyed that his crossbreed wouldn't win against another dog and pull out, and heard him say in another class if his labrador poodle cross doesn't win then he will be annoyed. So I think that its up to the individual person how they react to different classes etc, not grouping all of a certain group together.
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