Like I said BD, it's no big deal. This only came up because Mish asked me where I use "patience" with my dogs. It was really the first thing that popped in my mind. It's really no biggie. I'm not one to worry over material things. They can be replaced and the kids/hubby should take more care of their stuff anyways.

Obviously, she has ruined quite a few things, so maybe she's not learning. Perhaps I'm failing if that is what you are saying but I can live with it. I'm sure she'll grow out of it and BenMcF was kind enough to post a link for me which I have found really interesting. The idea about dropping a shoe and rewarding her for leaving it is a damned good one and one I'm going to give a go. So I am glad I bought the subject up, even if it is attracting more attention that it really warranted

Hey Mish, yeah I am enjoying the "mellow" on the thread today. Long may mellow reign

I will definitely take a look at the other thread tomorrow, when I'm not so tired

No not saying you have failed at all just asking whether the technique you use, which you say your dog "understands" is not working at all, and maybe another approach would be better, that all, and maybe the dog doesnt really understand at all.

My observation is that most people tell their dogs off for growling - nothing to do with watching CM. People tell of their kids for being rude and think it right to do the same with their dogs.

Even dogs that are NEVER told off for growling will often attack without warning. And nice, well behaved, stable dogs DO attack weak or unstable dogs - it's instinctive.

So you're in a situation where you have an aggressive, unstable dog and you can't help but come into contact with dogs of unknown background and temperament. It's an incident waiting to happen.

I really do sympathise. It sounds like an impossible situation.

I appreciate what you're doing by trying to get your dog to cope a bit better with these dogs given that she has to spend time around them. But I wonder if that's the best idea?

There's no comparison really, but a while back we were having a few problems with bad mannered dogs pestering us while we were training in the park or walking on-lead. Our girl (who's not aggressive) had taken to growling at them when they wouldn't p*ss off. We obviously didn't want to put her in this situation. We actually got very good at keeping people and dogs at a distance. We didn't stop to chat and when we saw another dog approaching we'd deliberately and obviously change direction. The dogs took the hint most of the time and their owners would be far more inclined to call their dogs away before they got anywhere near you. We are now able to walk through a busy park without another dog coming near us - can't tell you exactly what we do....we just kind of developed the knack over time.

That little bit of breathing space was all that ours needed. A few weeks without other dogs getting in her face and she was back to her old self. I know it's not going to be that simple with yours, but maybe better to work on avoiding other dogs rather than trying to get them to play nice together? Then you can cherrypick some nice, well balanced dogs for her to interact with and learn that other dogs are nice.

I know what you are saying but I really do think she understands at the time, then she sees a bit of leather left around (usually by those pesky kids ) and she can't resist. I'm going to give the reward thing a go (dropping the shoe and rewarding for leaving it). Obviously, I don't know if it will work but it'll be interesting to see She has the most amazing nature. Such a friendly, lovely girl, so I think she'll get there. I just need to invest a bit of time instead of keep thinking she's "over it" only to find another piece of leather kill dangling from her ever so shiny, perfect teeth

Scarter, I appreciate the advice but I am afraid it dosent really work in this case

I have not been trying to get Mia and Lucy to play I have been trying to get her to be calm when Lucy is in the area - as we live very close it often happens that local dogs will be somewhere in sight when we go out the door.
I HAD got to the stage where Mia could be quiet and excited with Lucy in the park because she was expecting a treat from Lucys owner, they could walk and ignore each other while I was able to say hello to her owner - always keeping them appart

Mia has lots of doggy friends, she goes to classes and has met and made friends with lots of dogs - and she is really good at remembering her friends and dogs that she met 6 months ago she can remember

She is perfectly fine with offlead dogs (even if she is on the lead) and I can walk her fine in places where dogs are offlead

Onlead she makes a fuss when she sees the dog to start with but if she is given the time to calm down and the other dog is fine then she will make friends

The only dogs she dosent get on with are dogs she meets onlead coming straight at her - like on a path - when I dont have time for her to calm down
and
Dogs that she has already met but that were unstable with her - she has never been attacked by a stable dog always dogs with issues

Obviously I do, my annoying troll. You keep responding

I suggest you pay attention, halfwit, you are not 'women'. What you are is an internet loser, with far too much sense of entitlement and too little sense to know better.

If you spent less time whining about how you are being victimized and spent more time thinking, these discussion would not be getting off topic.

So you don't consider, choking, strangulation, misuse of a prong collar, and forcible pinnings abuse?

If someone attacked you that way, your reaction would be similar.

So, what he did is fight the dog to exhaustion and then once the dog was in shock and helpless he tells you it is CALM and you believe him.

That's his pattern isn't it?

Provoke the dog.
Punish the dog until it shuts down.
Declare the dog is calm.

Blather on some idiocy about mother nature, energy, pack..

One sure sign of ignorance is people who are sure about things they know nothing about.

In fact, clicker training can be applied very effectively in such cases. Of course, it begins by not shoving the dog's face into the triggering stimulus. It begins by controlling the environment, and if you pay close attention how we do it with human, it is the same method. Enviromental control is key to behavioral modification.

If Millan ran a rehab clinic, he would shove a junkie in to a crack house and then start hitting them when they tried to use.

My impression is that most owners; specially those enamored with dominance miss all the signals. If you can look at a dog with whale-eye and think it is calm, then your ability to discern canine body language is non-existent.