I know of a couple that would not swim and 1 was due to a muscle injury the owner knew nothing about and the other was that the dog was overweight and had breathing difficulties.

It does't mean the dog 'Cannot' do the job, just that he needs some help learning to doing it. Why should that make him inferior to any other working dog.

I've never heard of a working or gundog that didn't need any form of training at all. They all need training of some kind, what is this newfie any diferent ?

I don'tthink he is but people used to tell me my GSDs were not worthy as they didn't have the stamina to keep going all day which was due to their lifestyle & my preferences not theirs as I don't like the schutzhund training which people noe consider is correct for a GSD. I would not wan't this for my dogs but would still consider them fit for breeding, I wasn't saying the dog shouldn't be bred from but its no different in my opinion to someone who has any dog rhat does not do the job it was bred for, this is why I was asking.

That newfie doesn't do the job ........YET !!! It doesn't mean he can't.

A lot of people only do them for fun and to see their dogs enjoying what they were bred to do Most people I know don't work them daily, we only run ours twice a week during the working season (sometimes 3, but never every day). There aren't many rallies near you though are there? I guess you went to Quantock - we didn't do that one as it was a bit far

As for landing in a heap - been there & done that on the scooter (I had attached the boys to me rather than to the scooter, got stuck in mud and so went straight over the handlebars ). It's all good fun

The last one was the Welly rally, but you're right, not many down my way, unfortunately, they are usually up country more, which is a shame. We manage to work ours twice a week, but we don't work them hard, admittedly (my boy would rather be peeing up the nearest tree, absolutely crap focus

Could you expand on this John. Would be interested in it

Yes it's a shame they can't do Welly anymore - that was a nice trail. Also, Quantock is SHCGB so you need a minimum of 2 dogs to run. I think AMWA are doing Buttersteep again this year though (which isn't far from where Welly was).

Rofl Do you run them together? I find they tend to work better as a team - I ran four in training last winter (3 dogs, 1 bitch) and none of the dogs wanted to pee up trees

Yes, Welly was a great place, such a shame the public go and spoil it. The last time we did it a guy was trying to hide behind a tree with his dog down the trail. When he was shouted at to move off the trail, he ignored it and still pretended he wasn't there, but his dogs tail was wagging on one side of the tree and his beer belly was poking out the front of the tree ...ROFL

Yes I do run them together. My bitch has all the focus and listens to everything without any problems at all, but my boy tends to sniff the air too much, although he has the speed to keep them both going, cant win really About a month ago we were going well, if a little fast, and my boy stopped for a poo without any warning, and of course the line dragged, went up and under the wheel, wrapped around it, squashed it and buckled the wheel It was a long walk back too.....ROFL