Lip Fold dermatitis? (Spaniel mouth) Does this look or sound like it?

Some friends of mine came to see me today with their six years old Cocker Jack (i bred Jack). They are very worried about him and wanted my opinion on a mouth condition. Jack has been seen by four different vets at their practice and they have all said that he has Spaniel mouth. Well i have seen Spaniel mouth lots of times (my old girl Tina gets it now and again) and Jack hasn,t got Spaniel mouth IMO. Jack has been given antibiotics twice and they haven,t helped him at all. The vet hasn,t taken any bloods to test, or taken a skin scrapping. I have taken some photo's of Jacks mouth and a nasty rash that he has on his tummy to see if anyone may have seen this before. I clipped Jack down while they were here, his coat is very brittle this rash is on other parts of his body, he has lost much of the pigmentation on his nose and on his top and bottom lip, he has very red and inflamed gums and inside top lip. Jack is salivating continually and i saw no signs of lip fold dermatitas the folds on his lips were clear. Jack is drinking normally but when he drinks he seems to take much longer than usual, and is very messy. I have never seen this before in a Cocker or any other dog but his symptoms concern me. I have made an appointment for him with our vet next tuesday, earliest i could get with the vet i wanted to see. Has any one any ideas please, Jacks mum and Dad are very worried and so am i

Can't help, sorry Mini or Christine may have some insight into what may be the matter with Jack.

Does his mouth appear to be causing pain/discomfort/irritation? Does his breath smell bad? Are his gums bleeding when rubbed? Have his teeth, tongue and gums been throughly examined? Any sign of mouth ulcers?

The loss of pigmentation could be a seasonal abnormality which will right itself in the warmer weather.

The rash could be an allergy.

The brittle coat may be a dietary deficiency.

But ... all these things going on at once? I think you are wise to get him a very thorough vet exam with bloods & scrapings taken.

Hi L, not seen anything like this, poor feller his gums look painful

Some thoughts, lack of pigment & sore gums could be contact allergy to something like plastic/metal? Had a yorky used to board & he was allergic to metal on the kennel doors, but also to same on his collar & lead etc. His skin looked like Jack but he didn`t have gums like that tho his lips could swell, he had to have plastic dishes. Allergies like this are more common to plastics

Hypothyroid can cause loss of pigmentation & brittle skin? Not heard of it causing sore gums tho?

Would think the excess salivation is due to his gums being sore poor boy

What about some bonjela or the stuff they sell for mouth ulcers in the chemist, might ease it a bit. Is he itching, you haven`t said but you could try anti histamine if he is & bland soft food so it doesn`t sting him or worsen the inflamation in his gums. Sorry can`t think of anything else but if I do I`ll post it.

Good luck at vets, hope he sorts it

Thanks for your replies SB and Christine. Jacks teeth are fine it is only his gums and lips that are the problem, his nose was smelling quite bad due to infection but that is now gone. Maybe it is an allergy of some sort as you say Christine. This all seemed to trigger off when Jack had the kennel cough vaccine a few weeks ago. But maybe totally unrelated? The rash is irritating Jack and he has been nibbling himself, as you can see from the photo it is very sore looking. Hopefully our vet will come up with something, its awful to see Jack like this

http://www.akitaclub.org/health/pemphigus.htm
A possibility?
Dawn.

Forgot to say, vaccines and over vaccination cause this auto-immune disease.

Wow ! poor little chap that must be sooo painful, no wonder he takes a long time to drink....
Try giving him warm water not cold if he will drink it and bathe around the lip fissures area with cotton wool dipped in a mild saline solution ...pint of boiled water to a teaspoon on salt.
I don't think it looks anything like spaniel mouth and the first thing that comes to mind is allergic reaction or an autoimmune problem of some kind. I would have thought the vet might have prescribed antinflamatories and done a blood test.
You can also ask for a referal to the nearest RVC Collage...not sure where you are..the north east? Maybe Liverpool or Glasgow will be your nearest. Good luck and please keep us informed

Louie, you have a PM.
Dawn.

Auto Immune problem was my first thought, especially as he's had a Kennel Cough vaccination recently. Could be linked!

Thanks for your replies Borderdawn, mini and CC, you have all been really helpful. Got your pm Borderdawn and thanks.

Please keep us updated if you will Louis thank you....