this hip scoring stuff is so confusing

I have been looking at a few gsd websites and I have noticed that the parents can have a high hip score but the offspring have a much lower score. I particularly noticed one shepherd with a score of 6 from a sire with a score of 37. The advice would be not to breed from a dog with that high a score yet he has produced a puppy with a very low score. So it would seem that hip scoring may not be a very useful predictor of hip problems in future generations.

Exactly my own thoughts too, when my gsd puppy had a lameness problem and I said to the vet that it can't be an elbow problem because the parents had 0:00 elbow score and good hips and she said that meant NOTHING when it comes to the offspring???!!! Strange isn't it!

Hip scoring is not an exact science. Since it is thought to be a polygenic trait there are many things that can influence a hip score, not just the hip scores of the sire/dam although these have to be taken into account.

I think a pertinant point is the part I have highlighted, yes they have produced a pup that has a good hip score, but what about the rest of their offspring?

When looking at hip scores you don't just look at the scores of the sire and dam but at those of their close relatives too. If they are all low scoring then the odd high score could be due to other factors and not necessarily genetic. However if several are high then you need to start asking yourself if there is a genetic issue.

To be honest people who try and justify using dogs with high hip scores are normally the ones who are not breeding to better the breed.

This was an example from a very well known kennel breeding show dogs and whilst that is no guarantee I would have expected them to be one of the better breeders.

That's an interesting comment. It would be good to know why she thinks that.

hello
hd is not only genetic but also enviromental,but hipscoring does help in irradicating (cant spell must be the heat!)it.of course there will always be the odd one out where the rules dont apply,this is nature but by only breeding from sires/dams of good scores we are doing want we can to help produce healthy offspring and our consience is clear,its not really fair to leave it to a lottery is it? it could easily of turnt out a litter of very high scoring pups,then what? i still think as heart wrenching the decision i wouldnt breed from a dog with a high score.

Yes if this is true I would agree but it doesn't seem to be an absolute, more of a grey area. Some think it is nurture rather than nature.

It is both.

Sorry but you will likely find that the dog with a score of 6 will go on to produce high scores, the male at 37 should have never have been used,an example is a dog with a score of 4:4 his sire was normal but was known for producing high scores, if you look in a 3 gen pedigree of the dog with the 4:4 score then you have 7 dogs/bitches fast normal, 4 with HD-zuerkannt and only 3 normal.
although quite a few progeny were 13 and under there was an equal amount of 19+ and those that were as low as 19 were realy uneven. He also had sibblings and half sibblings with 20+.
Untill people start using dogs and bitches with pedigrees of all low scoring animals then the breed average will not reduce but will continue to rise.

yep i agree with you,it is both combined.but at least by health testing and educating owners about excerise and feeding etc we are doing what we can.

Elbows have no correlation with hips reguarding dysplasia, and even breeding 0 to 0 will produce some progeny with ED, if one parent as ED then the risk of progeny with ED more than doubles;
Normal Elbows x Normal Elbows = 12.2% offspring affected with ED

Normal Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 26.1% - 31.3% offspring affected with ED

Dysplastic Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 41.5% offspring affected with ED