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Crazymoon
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21-02-2012, 10:53 PM

Do dogs prey on other dogs?

Luna has a baying problem (baying is where a dog chases an animal down and then corners it or holds it down, even if they animal is fighting back. In hunting the owner is supposed to come and kill the animal.) It's an instinctive behavior, like herding, but she does it on cats, possums, and small dogs. She does it to big dogs too except she stops to sniff them first, so I think that is more poor social skills. But with the small dogs she just chases them and scares the poor things to death.
Even though her bites are extremely inhibited (she bit me in a fight on accidence once and it didn't even leave an indention) she always goes for the neck, and it's really scary for everyone involved. She's reactive to big dogs on a leash and she just lies down and stares at little dog. It's the creepiest thing.
Another weird thing is, she will be aggrivating a dog and then I go inside and INSTANTLY she calms down. I guess since I'm not there to "finish it off" it's not fun to hunt anymore. She also is quite friendly with small dogs (and very respectful to cats) inside.
How can I break her of her small-animal chasing? I'm working on her reactivity to big dogs and she's improved immensely, even though she still can't be within 40 feet of them.

How can I break her of her small-animal chasing? And how do I satisfy her baying instincts in a constructive way?
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labradork
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21-02-2012, 11:04 PM
What breed is she?

How is she being allowed to practice these behaviours in the first place? obviously a lot of dogs will chase small prey animals if given the chance, but how and where is she 'baying' cats and small dogs?

First and foremost this sounds like a management issue -- she should not be getting the opportunity to be behave in that way towards other dogs. The more they practice something, the better they get at it.
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Tass
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21-02-2012, 11:44 PM
Yes dogs do sometimes prey on other dogs, most commonly, but not exclusively, where there is a big size difference, especially if the larger dog is a hunting breed e.g some sight hounds can see smaller dogs as prey.

In some cases dogs can be playing when a sudden movement, increasing arousal and intensity or high pitched vocalisation during the game can suddenly tip it over into predatory behaviour from one towards the other.

Some dogs can also behave very differently in different situations, be that indoors versus outdoors, on lead versus off lead, owner present versus owner absent etc etc, or any combination of these as precise stimuli and the dog's perception of opportunity or situational-specific cues can vary dependent on all the factors of each situations.

As to how you prevent it and how you channel it, in a dog with a high hunting predisposition any outlet towards live prey can actually maintain the generalisation to non legitimate targets, (although in a few cases it can help but that can require even more expert handling).

Trying to interest a sight hunting dog in non live prey, such as balls etc, is unlikely to successful compete with the real thing.

I would agree with labradork that you need to look carefully at your management, and at how you train and handle her in other situations, if your control and influence isn't strong in calm situations without distractions it is likely to be nil in the problem situations and meanwhile she is actually learning to ignore you, or is even reading encouragement or support from you in these situations, albeit unintentional.
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Crazymoon
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22-02-2012, 12:18 AM
Sorry for not being clear enough!
I found out her fighting preferencesbefore I figured out how to manage her.She hasn't had the chance to attack a dog in several months. I have developed a better eye for other dogs than she has, it seems. By the time they actually arrive in her line of vision she is leashed and paying attention to me. I can usually keep her from reacting but I can tell from her staring at the other dog (big or small) that she wants to get at it. If I wasn't distracting her with treats she would react. Again if it's small and within 40 feet she will lie down and stare at it and I cannot do anything but sit next to her until the little dog passes.
So she is being managed but we're not making progress... She almost wants to get in fights with big dogs.
With cats she trained herself to catch my cats for me when they escape from the house. She tries to catch the 5 billion other cats in my neighborhood but she's always on leash when we pass the area. She doesn't bark or growl but she does get all whiney and starts pulling.

I know she's hald lab, but I'm not sure about the other half. My guess is blue lacy on account of the whole baying thing. They're a rare breed but she was found in rural central Texas, which is where you'd find one.

That's what Luna's like Tass! You throw a ball and she looks at you with distain. She loves shredding cardboard and stuffies though. And when she would attack a dog (in the past) I'd be yelling in terror and she probably thought I was cheering her on. I also am constantly scanning for other dogs and am very tense the whole time I see one.
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Tass
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22-02-2012, 12:32 AM
Have you tried walking her in a head collar, whereby you can control her eye line and walk her, with you, past small dogs, at a suitable distance of course? This may initially require some determination on your part, particularly if she is accustomed to things going differently.

You stopping with her while she is staring at them is putting her in control of that situation, with her deciding when to terminate her focus, rather than you.

This may be why you aren't making progress.

If she is looking to fight big dogs that may be more a competitive "proving herself" thing than a predatory response.

Remember she can react from a different motivation to different dogs so she can see small dogs are prey but large ones as competition/challenge, or a threat, depending on her body language at the time.

if she is interested in "stuffies" can you teach her to focus on those on lead rather than the other dogs, starting with no dogs and gradually working on reducing the distance over time, as you build control?
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Crazymoon
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22-02-2012, 03:45 AM
I have tried headcollars, they make her more reactive and they make me nervous. I will try not letting her stop and stare though. That will be hard, as she literally flops to the ground when she sees another dog

As for the stuffy, she will play at least a little while almost every time I bring a stuffy out so I will start habituating her to playing off our property. She doesn't actually like tug much though. Mostly she just likes tearing the poor thing to shreds.
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spaznchevrolet
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22-02-2012, 04:10 AM
my coonhound mix bays at everything never had a problem with other dogs or cats though , she usually does it when she catches smell of a racoon or rabbit , but how i manage is a headcollar and plenty of excersise and diamond dont try to chase much anymore but the baying wont stop because its in the blood..... best of luck to you ! it will all work out just gotta find what works for Luna
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Wysiwyg
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22-02-2012, 07:18 AM
I've not had a chance to look at it yet, but you may find Jean Donaldson's dvd on predation in dogs useful...

http://www.positiveanimalsolutions.co.uk/pif.html
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ClaireandDaisy
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22-02-2012, 10:07 AM
Isn`t this simply aggression? It may sound better to say she`s hunting, but dogs don`t eat their own species so I would discount the `she`s a hunter` theory , personally.
I had a hunting dog from Greece. When he came, he was dog-aggressive (as well as being a hunter). I worked on control and socialisation and muzzled him round other dogs. I suggest you do the same.
For the hunting - I walked him on a long line anywhere there was likely to be game.
I think it is unfair to other creatures to dismiss this behaviour as instinctual. If your dog continues to be a bully to other dogs, then one day she`s going to meet one that fights back. You need to prevent this behaviour for the sake of your dog, as well as for the safety of others.
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DaisyD0g
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22-02-2012, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Isn`t this simply aggression? It may sound better to say she`s hunting, but dogs don`t eat their own species so I would discount the `she`s a hunter` theory , personally.
I had a hunting dog from Greece. When he came, he was dog-aggressive (as well as being a hunter). I worked on control and socialisation and muzzled him round other dogs. I suggest you do the same.
For the hunting - I walked him on a long line anywhere there was likely to be game.
I think it is unfair to other creatures to dismiss this behaviour as instinctual. If your dog continues to be a bully to other dogs, then one day she`s going to meet one that fights back. You need to prevent this behaviour for the sake of your dog, as well as for the safety of others.
Thankyou for posting this as I was thinking the same, I have a Catahoula who is also a hunting dog, bred to hunt wild pigs by "baying" them, however she never tries to do this other dogs or animals, she is extremely well socialised and is very respectful of other dogs.

I would agree in a non-hunting dog we would call this aggression and I wouldn't let my dog off-lead in this instance, or I would use a muzzle.
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