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mse2ponder
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19-08-2008, 04:36 PM

Showing Terminology Help!

Just wondered if anyone could explain a couple of showing/conformation terms to me?

"well laid-back"
"overdone"

I'm sure people have more, so feel free to add to this!

Thanks in advance..
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megan57collies
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19-08-2008, 04:57 PM
Laid back is a term normally related to a dog shoulders in a critique and the wordage is also used in some breed standards It is a positive term if the breed standard calls for it.

Overdone is straight forward to what it relates to. For instance a critique might say "nice proportions, not overdone" which would mean that the dog as a whole is in proportion and to scale and it is not overdone, ie, no exagerations to for example rear angulation, or head proportions and shape. Again it is normally used in the positive. However I have seen the term used in the negative especially in young dogs (puppies) where a judge has deemed the pup overdone, ie matured too quickly when your looking normally at a pup that looks nice but also shows that it can only get better with maturity. For instance in my breed you are not looking for the finished product at 12 months. You are looking for a dog that will continue to improve and finish over a 3-4 years.
Hope that makes sense
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mse2ponder
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19-08-2008, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by megan57collies View Post
Laid back is a term normally related to a dog shoulders in a critique and the wordage is also used in some breed standards It is a positive term if the breed standard calls for it.

Overdone is straight forward to what it relates to. For instance a critique might say "nice proportions, not overdone" which would mean that the dog as a whole is in proportion and to scale and it is not overdone, ie, no exagerations to for example rear angulation, or head proportions and shape. Again it is normally used in the positive. I've not personally seen it written or said in the negative but I suppose it could be if a dog is over exagerated in shape or coat. Hope this helps
Thanks very much! I've heard "well laid back" used regarding shoulders and elbows - is it to do with angulation?

In AiredaleKate's thread, someone mentions that fast-maturing dogs often have a shorter career in the ring due to being "overdone".. so does this just mean that the characteristics that enabled them to be successful early on are too exaggerated as they get older?

Sorry for all the questions!
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Borderdawn
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19-08-2008, 06:46 PM
Overdone often is attributed to breeds like Boxers. They mature and look their best at around 2yrs, many go too coarse when older, so dont "last" in the ring. Breeds like the Chihuahua and many other smaller breeds and late maturing breeds like Setters will be in the ring for years, often winning CC's in much later life.
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megan57collies
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19-08-2008, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by mse2ponder View Post
Thanks very much! I've heard "well laid back" used regarding shoulders and elbows - is it to do with angulation?

In AiredaleKate's thread, someone mentions that fast-maturing dogs often have a shorter career in the ring due to being "overdone".. so does this just mean that the characteristics that enabled them to be successful early on are too exaggerated as they get older?

Sorry for all the questions!
Yes it certainly applies in my breed. If your looking at a pup in the ring that's what you want to see, a pup!
Yes construction should be correct but things like head, chest etc should be a work in progress so to speak and not finish til a few years old. You are correct that a lot of mature looking pups only seem to have a short career in the ring, with most of them dropping off by the time they are two. As a BC for instance has a good life span. Dogs of 7 and 8 are still regularly winning CC's from the Open/Veteran classes. Obviously ages and maturity change depending on what breed it is, as Borderdawn has said above. But in my breed I will always go for lines that are slow maturing. It might perhaps hinder me slightly in the younger classes but then the dog comes into his own by the time you get up into the higher classes. As an example out of the 20 so pups I competed with in puppy with my boy. Only three are now still showing at higher classes. A lost of the dogs that dominated the puppy and junior classes have now ceased showing. There are various reasons for this but maturing too quickly and not finishing off is one of them
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Archer
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21-08-2008, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by mse2ponder View Post
Thanks very much! I've heard "well laid back" used regarding shoulders and elbows - is it to do with angulation?

In AiredaleKate's thread, someone mentions that fast-maturing dogs often have a shorter career in the ring due to being "overdone".. so does this just mean that the characteristics that enabled them to be successful early on are too exaggerated as they get older?

Sorry for all the questions!
Most breeds require a laid back shoulder...this allows for good foreleg extension when moving.An upright shoulder will mean a short upper arm and will cause short choppy strides.
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mse2ponder
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21-08-2008, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Most breeds require a laid back shoulder...this allows for good foreleg extension when moving.An upright shoulder will mean a short upper arm and will cause short choppy strides.
Thanks Archer.. what sort of breeds don't have well laid back shoulders (just so I can compare!)?
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Archer
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23-08-2008, 06:49 AM
Have a look at the IBIZAN HOUND..
breed standard says...
Forequarters
Rather steep, short shoulder blades, long straight legs, erect pasterns of good length.


Maybe compare to a similar type but with (quote breed standard)PHAROAH HOUNDForequarters
Shoulders strong, long and well laid back. Forelegs straight and parallel. Elbows well tucked in. Pasterns strong.
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