Biting Border collie...

yep you read it correclty....

nick.... 13 year old (in 2 days)! bc has decided that when he isnt going to do something he is going to bite....

this means.... when its bedtime and he needs to go out for awee - he point blank refuses to go... this is every single night - and im getting sick of it.... if you try to lead him out by his collar - he will bite...

if you ask him to move when hes in the way - he snarles and i have no doubt he would bite me if i used my hands to guide him out the way...

btw this dog is not vicious or aggressive imo.... just a nouty old git who needs to change....

when he bites i only use voice commands - never tap or smack him... normally and "ouch! no"!... but makes no difference...(he does eventually go out btw...) except

last night i comepletly lost my rag with him and put his lead on and literally dragged him outside... once outside he's fine and acts 'normal'

i know hes almost 13.. i know hes going to be grouchy... but im not accepting snarling and biting.... i have a week - just me and dogs as mums away...(he does the same to her btw)!.... and id like to make some progress....

hope ive given enough background... and methods to try would be great (although smacking i wont even entertain)

thanks

At that age I'd start by asking the vet to have a look at him.
He might be in pain somewhere and collies are very good at not showing it. Also if he has arthritis getting up and moving once he's settled is a big effort and painful. Or could it be a sign of senility?
Once you rule out any physical causes I'd just be firm,not harsh, and consistent. Use a house line if necessary so you can make sure he has to do as he's told without the risk of a bite.

Agree with Dale's Mum. My old Beagle never showed any aggression until he began to go deaf and get stiff. I'd get him checked out. Hope it's easily sorted

he has arthritus and hes on metacam - he is slightly stiff getting up but we know not in pain(vets confirmed it)

he has troubl with his back - the vet pressed the base of his spine and he squealed... but on metacam he's fine....

its hard to know with dogs when its time to let them go (again this seems to be a topic thats over my head again)... as one min he's fine - the next its omg is he ok?

when i say fine - he runs(albeit slow but he runs) play, fetches his ball

he struggles to jump up though now - even on the settee, and the cars getting worse...

im worried about this winter and not quite sure which way this is going to go! but until then i refuse to be bitten again!! i may try a lead again tonigh - but even then he snarls....and tries to go for me (not all the time goes for me but always snarls

I'd imagine he's in pain or discomfort and finds it hard to go out or do what you want at times - my dog, when older, needed to have her legs massaged gently before she could walk comfortably after she'd been lying for a while.

What you describe about when he growls sounds like a dog who may be in pain, not necessarily debilitating, but who may not be able to comply with requests quickly for instance and so responds the only way a dog can.

I'd go for a vet check and just make sure he's OK but I suspect it's his arthritis/spinal problems kicking in, and it's not really fair to lose your temper with him - he's growling to communicate, and probably because on some level he's unable to comply with your requests, either mentally or physically

I'd perhaps leave the door open and lure him out with some tasty chicken or put a lead on and slowly walk with him, praising him - whatever seems kind and can motivate an oldie to be "good"

If he snarls it may be because he thinks you are going to force him, so to some extent you will need to work on rebuilding some trust - he may accept a lead if you loop it rather than attach it to the collar, and speak to him in an upbeat tone plus give him food at the same time, and use sideways body language, for instance. Do be careful though as he may not trust you now.

If he loves his ball, maybe use that to get him outside and reward him with it? A special toy is usually highly motivating

If he's old and not long for this world, and you have to do this for all the time he has left, then so be it

Make life stress free for all concerned. Good luck!

Wys
x

Would have to agree. We had an elderly collie on Metacalm and while it helped him enormously it didn't remove all the pain.
Also as the arthritis gets worse Metacalm begins to be less effective, so it might be worth talking to the vet to see if its time to try something else. It sounds as if this is the root of your problem. Obviously no one wants to be bitten but I think you'll have to accept that he's trying to tell you he can't do as you ask without hurting himself and he needs a bit of extra time and patience.
The last stages of life aren't the easiest but sadly something we'll all face one way or another. I hope you get the help you need to make things as happy as possible for you both.

thanks wys


me and nick have a love hate relationship i love him he hates me

no - hes my mums dog techincally - but we do (since what 4 years ago?) share responsibility of all our dogs... but me and nick have never really clicked.... like me and millie have

anyhow! i do think hes in discomfort and i dont mean to sound like anasty cow but i dont intend to keep any animals that are inpain on this earth,, id rather they go sooner and happy than waiting for them to be in pain... but its getting that right time....! which i find very difficult especially as its not technically my dog and ultimately not my decision to be made yet i obviously get consulted etc...

i dont honestly think hes quite there yet but obviously this weather (now rain) isnt helping his legs/back....in winter i really feel for him, and now ive seen what its like for him in summer - he dosent improve at all imo...

Hes a happy chap imo overall and like i said i dont think hes there yet but we have his vaccinations due this month and were taking both him and the mil in (she needs to be weighed i cant lift her onto our scales.. )... so i think we shoudl have a good chat to the vet then......

i cant remember exactly whats wrong with his back btw - so im not being thick - so io appologise for the lack of info for that... but regarding my OP.. i will try putting him on a lead (looped this time) and coaxing him our with some cheese (his fave) and see if we can progress that way....

i think also it may help if i start spending more time with him - which this week i will as im taking them out/feeding them etc....

Just get a slip lead, slip his head in & pulley him up abit gently, cos you will be a distance away he cant get you, just lots of encouragement.

I agree with the others he is probaly comfy were he is & its a effort getting up.

Its really not worth getting bitten for or upsetiing your last year or two together,

Try the slip lead & let me know how it goes!

will do - thanks

i love the little git to bits n hate upsetting him which imo is what im doing by moving him but i duno what else he thinks i canm do lol

I think at the age of 13 he should be allowed a bit of space. Old dogs take life slowly and don`t appreciate having to get up from a comfiortable bed.
I tempt my Oldie out with biscuits sometimes. And he will chomp at me if I try to move him. When I`m his age I`ll probably do the same
I would imagine his hearing and eyesight aren`t what they were, so some of it might be down to that.
I love the Oldies